Domestic Car Company Rant............

[FinanceDude]

So, got a new neighbor, and he works as a GM at a big domestic car dealership. He's driving an Escalade as a company vehicle, and his wife has a GMC Yukon Denali.

He told me he was surprised at the amount of OLD CARS and Japanese cars in the neighborhood. He pretty much thinks that people are being un-American by buying foreign. Sounds like he's going to have fun in our neighborhood........

 

[TromboneAl]

Did you tell him it's because there are no OLD GM cars still running?

 

[73ss454]

Did you tell him it's because there are no OLD GM cars still running?

Wait a sec, my 73 chevelle runs great!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Later on when I have time I'll deconstruct the denali and escalade and a toyota camry...see which one has the highest foreign content.

I'm betting the camry has the highest domestic content...just guessing...

 

[73ss454]

Last week the initial quality results came out and Ford beat Toyota. Could be a quirk but maybe Ford has turned the corner.

Also when I lived in NY the domestic dealers were closing as did the one I worked in. In a 10 square mile area there were 11 Ford dealers and 9 Lincoln Mercury dealers. Yet only 4 Toyota dealers. The reason for this is most of the domestic dealerships were built in the 40's and 50's before he invasion of the foreign cars. So we needed to get rid of some of the domestic dealers. In NY most of the cars are leased and the domestics did not lease well as do most of the Jap cars.

Now living in Fla. I see that the domestic dealers do very well. Everyone on my block seems to have an f-150 in their garage. I've also found out that very few cars are leased in Florida which makes domestics much more attractive.

 

[brewer12345]

Hey, I have a Subaru and a Honda in the driveway and I would consider something from Ford, since quality is pretty good these days and I have owned a Ford in the past that I felt was good value for the money. But I insist on high safety rankings and I do not want a gas guzzler. Ford doesn't even make minivans any more, and the old one was crap. I'd be interested in a 500/Taurus, but it is a it of a guzzler and doesn't come in a station wagon. So I bet I will not end up with a Ford next time around.

 

[FinanceDude]

Last week the initial quality results came out and Ford beat Toyota. Could be a quirk but maybe Ford has turned the corner.

Also when I lived in NY the domestic dealers were closing as did the one I worked in. In a 10 square mile area there were 11 Ford dealers and 9 Lincoln Mercury dealers. Yet only 4 Toyota dealers. The reason for this is most of the domestic dealerships were built in the 40's and 50's before he invasion of the foreign cars. So we needed to get rid of some of the domestic dealers. In NY most of the cars are leased and the domestics did not lease well as do most of the Jap cars.

Now living in Fla. I see that the domestic dealers do very well. Everyone on my block seems to have an f-150 in their garage. I've also found out that very few cars are leased in Florida which makes domestics much more attractive.

Based on long-term quality statistics, it seems the following:

GM: Is putting all their quality into their Suburban/Tahoe line and lately the Corvette

Ford: Has put all their "good stuff" into the F-150 for many years. Perhaps the Fusion/Milan will be there, but I think it's too early to tell.

Chrysler: Seems the 300C model line is doing well.

Interesting that the domestics are picking only ONE model line to build quality when someone like Toyota has quality in a Corolla, Camry, Avalon, etc..........

 

[FinanceDude]

Did you tell him it's because there are no OLD GM cars still running?

Wait, I bought 5 NEW GM cars and one NEW Chrysler in a 23 year period, what does that make me?

a) sucker
b) clueless
c) a "good American"
d) All of the above

Now I have two Hondas, and will save enough on maintenance in the next 10 years to buy a 73 restored Chevelle.........

 

[FinanceDude]

Did you tell him it's because there are no OLD GM cars still running?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Last week the initial quality results came out and Ford beat Toyota. Could be a quirk but maybe Ford has turned the corner.

"Our ford test car came completely pre-wrapped in duct tape...we think that may have altered our initial quality results, but we'll have to investigate further".

My EXPedition just totally EXPloded over the 7 years I owned it.

 

[73ss454]

Funny you mention the Avalon. Last year Toyota was having problems with electrical gremlins in the Avalon and had to recall all of them. It was so bad that they were doing buy backs on them.

I think most of the manufacturers are on an even playing field now. There's just to much of a choice and it's harder for everyone. Now with China coming in it will get even harder. For the consumer it's a good thing.

 

[73ss454]

Wait, I bought 5 NEW GM cars and one NEW Chrysler in a 23 year period, what does that make me?

a) sucker
b) clueless
c) a "good American"
d) All of the above

Now I have two Hondas, and will save enough on maintenance in the next 10 years to buy a 73 restored Chevelle.........

Why would you want a restored car. Mine was built so well that it still has it's original paint, mufflers, belts and everything else I can think of. Have you seen any 35 years old Jap cars roaming around?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, the toyota camry is #2 in total domestic content, surpassed only by the Ford F-150.

The toyota Sienna is #7.

Neither the escalade or the yukon makes the top 10 list.

Isuzu has a higher domestic content level than GM.

Ask your neighbor why he hates America and if he's considered what his actions are doing to the troops.

Little aside...Ford shows high domestic content on a lot of their vehicles but seems to think that mexico is part of the US...which perhaps is a fair assessment. Several of their vehicles are manufactured in mexico with high content from mexico and other suppliers, yet are listed as 80% sourced from US parts and labor. Hmm...

 

[brewer12345]

Moreover, who the hell really cares where the cars and parts come from?

 

[FinanceDude]

Funny you mention the Avalon. Last year Toyota was having problems with electrical gremlins in the Avalon and had to recall all of them. It was so bad that they were doing buy backs on them.

I think most of the manufacturers are on an even playing field now. There's just to much of a choice and it's harder for everyone. Now with China coming in it will get even harder. For the consumer it's a good thing.

Agree, which is why I drive Honda. Let's see, the laundry list on my GM cars:

86 Old Cutlass Ciera 4 cylinder (Iron Duke engine) Electrical problems and ongoing exhaust problems. I finally got trade assistance from Olds to buy the Pontiac Grand Am because I REFUSED another Olds..........

88 Grand Am Quad 4: The head gasket blew out at 40,000 miles, got it fixed under recall. However, the transmission went at 57,000 miles, and I bitched but ended up getting nothing.

93 Grand Am V-6. Leased it for 3 years, bought it out and sold it with 31000 miles on it. Had to put new rotors, struts, and 2 ABS sensors on it, not covered under warranty because of time owned not mileage.

96 Grand Prix: Transmission went out at 32,000 miles 3 months after warranty ended. Bitched incessantly for a month before GM agreed to pay 2/3 of the repair. With rental car costs and my part, I spent $840. Sold the car with 78,000 miles, don't know if it's in a junk heap or not.

2003 Buick Rendevous. I leased this because they had a special,and my GM card was at the maximum amount. Ended up driving a loaded Rendevous for $200 a month and change......... Turned it in with only 27,000 miles, and it was by far my best GM car.........

My Chrysler Experience:

2004 Chrysler Town and Country Touring Package. I bought this new, and put 49,700 miles on it in 3 years. It went into the shop FIVE times for suspension problems, one of the fixes being an ENTIRE rack and pinion at 33,000 miles. At 40,000 miles, the dealer told me I was "on my own"and the suspension was still making a noise, so I filed a Magnuson-Ross claim through a Lemon Law attorney and got a cash settlement to help get rid of it.........

So, it's not like I didn't give the domestics a chance................

I have had my Honda Accord for 18 months, put 30,000 miles on it, and have done NOTHING but oil changes and tire rotations...........

Since I now got a 2006 Honda Odyssey for a good price, I'm set for a LONG time..........

I will mention that I bought a number of NEW GM cars because I got some good deals working at dealerships..........

 

[TromboneAl]

My laundry list:

1960 MGA: broke down on way home, major problems
1965 VW bug: worked great
19?? Toyota Celica: worked great
19?? Honda Civic: worked great
19?? Saab: Moderate problems with major price tags
19?? Subaru: Major problems
1991 Acura Integra: Worked great
2002 Toyota Echo: Works great, transmission failed under partial warranty
1999 Toyota Tacoma: Works great, but needed valve job

 

[wallygator69]

Why would you want a restored car. Mine was built so well that it still has it's original paint, mufflers, belts and everything else I can think of. Have you seen any 35 years old Jap cars roaming around?

Had a 72 Monte Carlo as a kid. Not a prayer of it ever hitting even 100k miles.

If you garage it and don't drive it, it will last forever

In fact for $1000.00 I'll give you a lifetime warranty on the Engine and drive train if you never start it again

Just kidding, great car. Wish I had one...

W

 

[brewer12345]

Lessee:

1987 Toyota pickup, had been badly abused before I got it, but ran OK (some fixes necessary)
1995 Ford Escort, cheap, ran like a top, cheap to fix, my sister still drives it
1996 Chevy cavalier, OK car taht I ran like crazy for a year and a half and then sold. Depreciated like a mofo
2003 Subaru Legacy, I put a brazilian miles a year on it, but in 97k miles thus far the only non-wear items I had to fix were a spark plug wire and (just recently) the seal on the rear differential. If nobody hits me too hard, I expect north of 250k out of this one.
2005 Honda odyssey, one minor trim issue that the dealer fixed, otherwise no problems yet. Probably rust out before it wears out.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

1971 mustang...exploded daily
1969 kingswood station wagon...front wheels fell off 2 days after buying
1964 chevy impala...put my feet through the floorboards a week after buying it, then it stopped running
1979 pinto with a v6, 4 speed, mag wheels and a racing stripe. Dont ask.
1985 Plymouth Reliant. Company car, not my fault. Was repeatedly launched through the air containing crash test dummies, aka 'roommates', so reliability record is suspect.
1987 Ford Ltd. No problems
1977 Corvette. Disintegrated. Duct tape cost $500 per roll. Last GM product I owned.
1986 Chrysler something or other. Spent the first 29 of 30 days in the shop. Dealer became embarrassed about it and took it back. Last chrysler product I owned.
1985 Thunderbird. Miraculously, 155k miles with nothing but tires and regular maintenance.
1987 Mercedes E300. No problems, even when used as a u-boat during hurricane andrew
2000 Mitsubishi Diamante. No problems.
1985 Mercedes 500SEL. No problems.
1984 Mazda Miata. No problems for 7 years
1985 BMW 325ic convertible. Disintegrated regularly. $1000 rolls of duct tape required
1984 Isuzu trooper 4x4 bought because I didnt like putting tire chains on my car in tahoe...no problems for 7 years
2000 Ford expedition. Disintegrated.
Wifes 1988 corvette. Disintegrated. Battery exploded and security system locked out the car during buyers test drive, who apparently suffered an aneurysm and bought the car anyhow
Wifes 1987 toyota pickup truck. No problems.
Wifes 2000 toyota rav4. No problems. Still have it.
2006 Honda pilot. No problems. Still have it
2006 Lexus LS430. No problems. Still have it.

There were about 20 other temporarily owned models. I think the record speaks well enough.

Japanese: good.
European: used to be good.
American: kaploooey.

other analysis: I seem to have a problem with brand loyalty.

 

[Nords]

He told me he was surprised at the amount of OLD CARS and Japanese cars in the neighborhood. He pretty much thinks that people are being un-American by buying foreign. Sounds like he's going to have fun in our neighborhood........

So, he sees his new neighbors as unpatriotic and potential GM customers?

How neighborly of him. You'll have to get together with your other neighbors and throw him a "block party"...

 

[Texas Proud]

OK... two things that my sister had sent to me yesterday.... here is one


> Subject: Americans vs.Japanese
>
>
>
> Car makers way of thinking
> A Modern Parable...
>
> A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American
> company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe
> race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced
> long and hard to reach their peak performance
> before the race.
>
> On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
>
> The Americans, very discouraged and depressed,
> decided to investigate the reason for the crushing
> defeat. A team made up of senior management was
> formed to investigate and recommend appropriate
> action.
>
> Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people
> rowing and 1 person steering, while the American
> team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
>
> Feeling a deeper study was in order, American
> management hired a consulting company and paid them
> a large amount of money for a second opinion. They
> advised, of course, that too many people were
> steering the boat, while not enough people were
> rowing.
>
> Not sure of how to utilize that information, but
> wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the
> rowing team's management structure was totally
> reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area
> sterrting superintendents and 1 assistant
> superintendent steering manager.
>
> They also implemented a new performance system that
> would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater
> incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing
> Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners
> and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of
> getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment,
> extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
>
> The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
>
> Humiliated, the American management laid off the
> rower for poor performance, halted development of a
> new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all
> capital investments for new equipment. The money
> saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as
> bonuses and the next year's racing team was
> out-sourced to India .
>
> Sadly, The End.

 

[Texas Proud]

Second....

BTW CFB... my '85 Cougar was one of the worst cars that I owned... it would stall on its own... and Ford knew why but did not tell anybody until they were sued 10 or more years later and lost.... well, if I still had the car I would have gotten a $500 reduction on any other Ford that I wanted to buy.... big whoop...




> Here's something else to think about: Ford has
> spent the last thirty years moving all its
> factories out of the US , claiming they can't make
> money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the
> last thirty years building more than a dozen plants
> inside the US.
>
> The last quarter's results:
>
> Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked
> up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still
> scratching their heads.
>
> IF THIS WASN'T SO SAD IT MIGHT BE FUNNY !

 

[FinanceDude]

So, he sees his new neighbors as unpatriotic and potential GM customers?

How neighborly of him. You'll have to get together with your other neighbors and throw him a "block party"...

Block party, as in the men bring bricks and the women bring paver bricks, and we see how many dings we can put in the the two "gas-misers" in his driveway......

One of LBYM neighbors said: "Wow that's something...........$80,000 worth of vehicles in his driveway and his mailbox is still busted"............

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Second....

BTW CFB... my '85 Cougar was one of the worst cars that I owned... it would stall on its own... and Ford knew why but did not tell anybody until they were sued 10 or more years later and lost.... well, if I still had the car I would have gotten a $500 reduction on any other Ford that I wanted to buy.... big whoop...

I remember that problem...something or other involved with that newfangled fuel injection system getting hot. I found if I ran it on higher octane fuel that it'd run great. Cost me a few cents extra per gallon, but it was cheaper than a new car. I had the 5.0L v-8...I heard there were other stalling problems with the 2.3l and the v6.

I was desperately hoping that car would develop a major problem as I was sick of driving it. I finally capitulated and bought something else...left all the receipts and stuff in the glove compartment. Some guy from upstate new york called me a couple of months later to say that he'd bought the car and it was in great shape!

 

[FinanceDude]

I remember that problem...something or other involved with that newfangled fuel injection system getting hot. I found if I ran it on higher octane fuel that it'd run great. Cost me a few cents extra per gallon, but it was cheaper than a new car. I had the 5.0L v-8...I heard there were other stalling problems with the 2.3l and the v6.

I was desperately hoping that car would develop a major problem as I was sick of driving it. I finally capitulated and bought something else...left all the receipts and stuff in the glove compartment. Some guy from upstate new york called me a couple of months later to say that he'd bought the car and it was in great shape!

I had an 87 Cougar, liked the looks and the ride, but it had 3 recalls on it............

Gas mileage was a little sketchy, but I think it was around $1.40 at the time and I didn't care.........

One of the best cars I only had for a short time was an Isuzu with 5 speed, air and cruise. It got 42 on the highway with the air on............