Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-26-2012, 08:42 PM   #61
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWeinel View Post

and you are COMPLETELY FREE to do so. I would NEVER want to take that right away from you.
You're too kind.
__________________

__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #62
Full time employment: Posting here.
GalaxyBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 847
It took about 10 seconds using Google to find more information on the presenter of this video. He's a professor at Pat Robertson's Liberty Law School. I believe he mentioned it in the video? He certainly used the word "christian" once or twice which is another clue.
__________________

__________________
GalaxyBoy is offline  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:29 PM   #63
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
You're too kind.
Whatever, darling
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-26-2012, 11:58 PM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Christopher Ochoa was convinced by an LEO to confess. Yeah, yeah, he confessed to a crime he didn't commit. In this case, though, the LEO was overzealous in his questioning. In other words, the LEO(s) just knew that they had done it. The cop(s) were wrong. (You can read more about the interrogation techniques online.)

The Innocence Project - Know the Cases: Browse Profiles:Christopher Ochoa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession

Lawyers tell people to lawyer up not because they're worried about the good cops but because they're worried about the overzealous cops. The ones who want to simply close a case, get a pat on the back, and go home; or the ones who are certain they can pick the criminal. Even if those cops are 1/100, you wouldn't want one accusing you of a crime you didn't commit and twisting your words (or waving a gun in your face during interrogation).

Not talking, in America anyway, does not mean you're guilty. If you think it does, you need to review the Bill of Rights and/or move elsewhere (Iran?).
__________________
eridanus is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:46 AM   #65
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:48 AM   #66
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,078
How quickly the holiday spirit ebbs...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:54 AM   #67
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post

This thread is getting sort of funny.
Also a bit surreal. In this thread they're calling lawyers lazy good for nothing's. Gotta make up our minds here.

My father was a lawyer, and he would have laughed at this and then told everyone they were full of it. But politely, in Latin, and using big obscure words no one understood, except other lawyers .
__________________
MichaelB is online now  
Old 12-27-2012, 08:14 AM   #68
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.
As the old card players used to say-

Trust everyone......but always cut the cards
__________________
ERhoosier is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:23 AM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.
Maybe you missed the "1/100" part? 1% is a far cry from 100%. Given that the overzealous cops don't have a name tag on them ("Beware! Overzealous/crooked cop!"), it's far better to lawyer up if a cop has decided to also be the judge and jury.

Although getting arrested and falsely put into prison might be a quicker way to ER/millionaire status once you're released and the state compensates you.
__________________
eridanus is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:36 AM   #70
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.
Hey there buddy, it does get kinda hard to take when it seems everyone on the forum/thread is piling on about the bad apples in your profession. But do try not to take it personally, really. After all, there are plenty of lawyer jokes left to tell.


~Says the financial planner who can find a complaint here every day about the less scrupulous members of her chosen profession.

__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:14 AM   #71
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.
That was my initial reaction too.

'Proof by exception,' a tired old approach that many people still don't see through. I had employees who tried it all the time...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Reason not to talk to the cops
Old 12-27-2012, 10:47 AM   #72
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: West Chester
Posts: 8
Reason not to talk to the cops

Primary reason not to talk to the cops is ...you always have more to lose than they do, in the case when you are could become a suspect.
__________________
RyanM is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:58 AM   #73
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
If they are talking to you, you are already a suspect to some extent. I am sure most police are just fine. Problem is I can't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have too much to lose, they have everything to gain by closing their case.

Once you have been questioned and they say things like "We know you were at that location", when they know no such thing you will look at it differently.

I have an inlaw in law enforcement and he verifies that they try to get people to confess. He says that the guilty always want to get it off their chest.

So yeah, I will not be talking beyond identifying myself if it ever happens again.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:55 AM   #74
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
If they are talking to you, you are already a suspect to some extent. I am sure most police are just fine. Problem is I can't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have too much to lose, they have everything to gain by closing their case.

Once you have been questioned and they say things like "We know you were at that location", when they know no such thing you will look at it differently.

I have an inlaw in law enforcement and he verifies that they try to get people to confess. He says that the guilty always want to get it off their chest.

So yeah, I will not be talking beyond identifying myself if it ever happens again.
That's shocking that the cops would try to get people to confess? I think that what you, as a taxpayer, are paying the cops to do isn't it?

Don't you want the guilty people to confess? I guarantee you that you would if you got shot and robbed, or your wife had gotten raped.

I don't understand any of these arguments that people are making unless they have something to hide. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, if you are guilty you should probably keep your mouth shut, but if you are innocent I seriously doubt that the cops are going to make you confess. It happens once in a blue moon and always involves a mentally challenged person. That's a whole different situation than what we are talking about here.

We can play "what if" all day. What if you get robbed and call the cops and then the cops see that you have an eagle feather in your car and you end up in trouble? Are you never going to call the cops and report a crime just in case they try to pin something on you? That's ridiculous.

What if some guy witnesses your wife get run over by a car but he refuses to cooperate because he has a tiny lobster in his car and doesn't want to talk to the police? I bet you aren't so happy with him.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #75
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
**I don't understand any of these arguments that people are making unless they have something to hide**

And, FINALLY, there you have if from a cop... you are guilty until proven innocent. "If you didn't do anything wrong, then why am I talking you?"

THAT, dear readers, is EXACTLY the reason for the amendments to the Constitution.
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #76
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
** It happens once in a blue moon **

"I" don't want to be THAT example
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:01 PM   #77
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
**We can play "what if" all day. What if you get robbed and call the cops and then the cops see that you have an eagle feather in your car and you end up in trouble? Are you never going to call the cops and report a crime just in case they try to pin something on you? That's ridiculous.

What if some guy witnesses your wife get run over by a car but he refuses to cooperate because he has a tiny lobster in his car and doesn't want to talk to the police? I bet you aren't so happy with him. **


Again, Officer utrech, I am NOT saying "don't talk", I am saying "Don't talk without counsel present". BIG BIG BIG difference. Why do cops hate to have a citizen "lawyer up"
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:15 PM   #78
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
That's shocking that the cops would try to get people to confess? I think that what you, as a taxpayer, are paying the cops to do isn't it?
I thought we paid the courts to determine guilt or innocence. We have a legal system with checks and balances. Jury of our peers. ect. If Police are so good at reading minds and determining who is guilty I guess we are wasting a lot of money on the legal system. It is not up to the police to decide what justice is. Never has been.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
I don't think you can really tell what the venue is. It appears to me to be a seminar.
I think you're probably right.
Just for grins, I went back and listened to the beginning again.
The first words out of the lawyer's mouth are:
Quote:
I was invited to give you a taste of a typical law school classroom experience here today,
So I think that makes it clear that the audience is not a group of law students.
__________________
braumeister is online now  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #80
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 3,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post

I don't understand any of these arguments that people are making unless they have something to hide.
So let's just do away with the bill of rights That would really make the police job easier. If you have nothing to hide why would you deny the police the "right" to enter your home at will and search through your belongings? You did nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide, so why would you care??

I saw a show once (yeah, too much L & O) where the police asked to search a suspect's house without a warrant. They guy said. "Tell ya what, officer. You let me search your house and I'll let you search mine. Fair enough??" IIRC, the officer ended up trying to get a warrant but was denied. The old "he won't let me search his house so he must be hiding something" approach didn't fly with the judge for some reason. Thank God and the constitution for that.

I think those who don't see the value of council during questioning are very rational, making excellent arguments. Unfortunately, not everything about "the law" is rational. Not everyone applies the law "rationally". Most of the time, law enforcement gets it right. Most LEOs are decent and competent. But they have a job to do. If they can get a suspect to give up a right, it does, indeed make their job easier. But where does it say we should give up our rights just because it makes someone else's job easier?

I really could turn this whole "if you have nothing to hide" argument around and say "If the police really don't wish to trample people's rights for their own convenience, why would they object to someone obtaining council before being questioned??"

Naturally, YMMV.
__________________

__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:05 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.