Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-27-2012, 04:40 PM   #81
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Just about everything I've said has been twisted so I'm done arguing my points. I'll end with this. Ive been dealing with these same attitudes for 23 years. Nobody likes the cop until they need them, then it's a whole different story.
"What took you so long?"
"Why cant you catch the guy?"
"Why cant you arrest him? I know he did it"
"Please do everything you can to make sure he doesnt do it again"
__________________

__________________
utrecht is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-27-2012, 05:03 PM   #82
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
No one said they didn't like the Police. Don't twist our words.
__________________

__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #83
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Agree with Laz - I have said OVER and OVER - I just want legal representation. AND for ME a significant part of that is any potential tort (civil matter), where the "burden of proof" is significantly less. If a Peace Office can convince me that it is IMPERATIVE to talk **RIGHT THIS MINUTE** as opposed to, say, an hour from now - THEN we can have a VERY LIMITED chat. But s/he has to convince me of the time sensitive nature of what s/he needs. FOR EXAMPLE - If i witnessed a murder a moment ago and saw what I believe to be the murderer walk down that road wearing such and such clothes, I WOULD provide THAT information. However, any subsequent "interview" about what exactly I saw, when, where, all the additional poop... THAT **CAN AND WILL** wait until I have counsel present. That is **MY** balance between the needs of a safe and secure society and protecting myself.
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:20 PM   #84
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWeinel View Post
If a Peace Office can convince me that it is IMPERATIVE to talk **RIGHT THIS MINUTE** as opposed to, say, an hour from now - THEN we can have a VERY LIMITED chat.
That seems like a much better position to take than your earlier statement.......


Quote:
NEVER talk to a police officer WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF AN ATTORNEY.

Sometimes a statement which emphasizes never allowing even small exceptions goes a bit too far. Never say never and all that........
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:37 PM   #85
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
Well if you look him up on wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Duane_(professor)

you get this:
"James Duane is a Regent University School of Law professor, former criminal defense attorney, and Fifth Amendment expert.[1] He received some notoriety for his "Don't Talk To Police" video of a lecture he gave to a group of law students, which instructs citizens to never talk to police under any circumstances."

... and this is what the Regent University School of Law has to say about him:
Regent Law Faculty Profile: James Duane

"James Duane is a Professor at Regent Law School in Virginia Beach, Virginia, where he received the Faculty Excellence Award in the fall of 2002. He has taught as a Distinguished Visiting Professor at William & Mary Law School in Williamsburg, Virginia, ... "

You decide if this is a seminar making "1000s of dollars" or something else.

I do, however, agree with youbet's caution (above) about using absolutes.

Sometimes I am amazed when people just know they are right about something.
__________________
Rustward is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #86
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Love this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
Well if you look him up on wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Duane_(professor)

you get this:
"James Duane is a Regent University School of Law professor, former criminal defense attorney, and Fifth Amendment expert.[1] He received some notoriety for his "Don't Talk To Police" video of a lecture he gave to a group of law students, which instructs citizens to never talk to police under any circumstances."
The law school says the lecture was "given as part of Regent Law School’s spring preview weekend," an organized program for prospective law students.
Regent Law Faculty Blog: Professor James Duane That's probably why he doesn't seem to be speaking to a group of law students.

Quote:
... and this is what the Regent University School of Law has to say about him:
Regent Law Faculty Profile: James Duane
Well, he probably wrote the material himself for that site. But he is obviously very impressive and well-credentialed. He's also very highly rated by his students: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/Show...jsp?tid=244958

Quote:
You decide if this is a seminar making "1000s of dollars" or something else.

Sometimes I am amazed when people just know they are right about something.
I bet Professor Duane wishes he got $1 a hit for that Youtube video.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 08:17 PM   #87
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Nodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cavalier
Posts: 2,317
I would be willing to talk to the police on the street but once it becomes more formal than that I would insist on a lawyer being present.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." Pogo Possum (Walt Kelly)
Nodak is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:08 PM   #88
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
Well if you look him up on wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Duane_(professor)

you get this:
"James Duane is a Regent University School of Law professor, former criminal defense attorney, and Fifth Amendment expert.[1] He received some notoriety for his "Don't Talk To Police" video of a lecture he gave to a group of law students, which instructs citizens to never talk to police under any circumstances."

... and this is what the Regent University School of Law has to say about him:
Regent Law Faculty Profile: James Duane

"James Duane is a Professor at Regent Law School in Virginia Beach, Virginia, where he received the Faculty Excellence Award in the fall of 2002. He has taught as a Distinguished Visiting Professor at William & Mary Law School in Williamsburg, Virginia, ... "

You decide if this is a seminar making "1000s of dollars" or something else.

I do, however, agree with youbet's caution (above) about using absolutes.

Sometimes I am amazed when people just know they are right about something.
The part that I bolded is the only thing that I think needs amended. "Never talk to police under any circumstances" is just utterly ridiculous. If you feel like you are being accused or suspected of something, by all means get an attorney if you want to.

Are you really not going to talk to the police if you get robbed? What if you are in a car wreck? Will you talk to the police then? What if you are a witness to a crime? Come on people. Get real.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:35 PM   #89
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
I always have my personal attorney present when I talk to the police. I guess finishing law school and passing the bar WAS good for something after all...
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:46 PM   #90
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
I always have my personal attorney present when I talk to the police. I guess finishing law school and passing the bar WAS good for something after all...
And how many times has this occurred?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:15 PM   #91
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
It really is a clarification not a restatement. That is one problem with forums. It can be SO difficult to express a complex thought so that hundreds of readers all get the same message. Especially readers who do not know the writer's personality and so forth. It is a constant tension betwen brevity (which is desired and a vitrue in the forums) and completeness. So, as the thread continues, the position becomes fleshed out a bit more and more. In a LIVE conversation, there is so much more opportunity to express nuance, have a quick back and forth to clarify and so on. The lack of that is just one of the difficulties in a forum... nor can the write convey facial expression, "tone" and other things. It is just such an imperfect medium.

Your commends about "never" remind me of a business law class wherein the instructor had some "no-no's" - NEVER enter into a general partnership, NEVER adopt your wife's kids and (to consolidate several others into one) NEVER enter into a transaction where YOU are approached by the other party (phone solicitation, door to door, and NOW e-mail solicitations and so on)

He acknowledged, and perhaps that is what **I** mean too, "Never" is intended to convey that the default is absolutely NO, and to overcome it requires getting over a sifnificant hurdle. So significant that for all intents and purposes the answer really is NO. Exceptions should be extremely rare and only in unusual situations. See, that is that tension between brevity and completeness. "never" is just so much more convenient. And, always, one can choose to ignore a never and talk, but it is impossible to "un-talk". So the default is never talk to police without counsel. <<< Short version.
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #92
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Are you really not going to talk to the police if you get robbed? What if you are in a car wreck? Will you talk to the police then? What if you are a witness to a crime? Come on people. Get real.

Officer U, it was within the CONTEXT of YOU being approached BY THE PEACE OFFICER. Your examples are silly and you know it.
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:11 AM   #93
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWeinel View Post
And, always, one can choose to ignore a never
Your position is clear now.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:33 AM   #94
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Your position is clear now.
I'm not sure. We may need another restatement or a clarification. Besides, what's the difference between ".." and *..*.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:37 AM   #95
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
The words "never" and "under any circumstances" had nothing to do with forums or brevity. They came directly from the law professor's lecture. They are his words not mine.

At no time did the professor say anything about his lecture being in the context of a person being approached by a cop. Basically they are saying to keep your mouth shut at all times just in case you accidentally say something that implicates yourself. They don't want you to even open your mouth during a traffic stop.

Their examples are much more ridiculous than the ones I gave. A small lobster? Really?

By the way, if you dont want to talk to the cops, you don't need a lawyer. Just say I would rather not speak to you, Mr. Police Officer. No need to pay an attorney unless you get charged with a crime. If I call you in for an interview, there is nothing the lawyer can do for you except advise you not to talk. If you have already decided that's in your best interest, why pay a lawyer?

Also, I don't get mad or offended at all when someone lawyers up to me. It happened twice last week and I walked out of the room thinking "oh well, maybe next time". When someone talks to me, sometimes it makes my job easier and sometimes it makes it harder depending on what they say. Sometimes I spend 2 hours with them and they just waste my time and I wish they would've lawyered up. I dont get paid on commission. I don't get promoted based on how many cases I clear. I don't get mad or lose sleep if I do my best and cant solve a crime. No cops that I know think that way. We just want to do the best job we can with the tools that are given to us. I do have a few cases that I couldn't solve over the years that I still think about occasionally in the same way that you might if you watched a movie and missed the ending, but I'm not mad at anyone for not talking to me. That's their right.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:01 AM   #96
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DFW_M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,980
I still believe if you have nothing to hide, there is no harm in talking to a police officer and answering some of his basic questions. However, I would agree that if the questions have any hint of trying to entrap oneself for something that is a potentially a serious crime, best to refraim from answering without advice or representation from an attorney. That said, I suspect most people will never have contact with the police for anything more serious than a traffic violation or accident and to that regard, you obviously know whether you have something to hide or not. Perhaps, DWIs are the most common gray area for whether to lawyer up or not.
__________________
DFW_M5 is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:41 AM   #97
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post

If I call you in for an interview, there is nothing the lawyer can do for you except advise you not to talk. If you have already decided that's in your best interest, why pay a lawyer?
I have a question about this. What compels a person to come in for an interview?
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:21 AM   #98
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
The words "never" and "under any circumstances" had nothing to do with forums or brevity. They came directly from the law professor's lecture. They are his words not mine.

At no time did the professor say anything about his lecture being in the context of a person being approached by a cop. Basically they are saying to keep your mouth shut at all times just in case you accidentally say something that implicates yourself. They don't want you to even open your mouth during a traffic stop.

Their examples are much more ridiculous than the ones I gave. A small lobster? Really?

By the way, if you dont want to talk to the cops, you don't need a lawyer. Just say I would rather not speak to you, Mr. Police Officer. No need to pay an attorney unless you get charged with a crime. If I call you in for an interview, there is nothing the lawyer can do for you except advise you not to talk. If you have already decided that's in your best interest, why pay a lawyer?

Also, I don't get mad or offended at all when someone lawyers up to me. It happened twice last week and I walked out of the room thinking "oh well, maybe next time". When someone talks to me, sometimes it makes my job easier and sometimes it makes it harder depending on what they say. Sometimes I spend 2 hours with them and they just waste my time and I wish they would've lawyered up. I dont get paid on commission. I don't get promoted based on how many cases I clear. I don't get mad or lose sleep if I do my best and cant solve a crime. No cops that I know think that way. We just want to do the best job we can with the tools that are given to us. I do have a few cases that I couldn't solve over the years that I still think about occasionally in the same way that you might if you watched a movie and missed the ending, but I'm not mad at anyone for not talking to me. That's their right.
Is advising you not the talk the only thing a lawyer can do? How about preventing charges in the first place by explaining or clarifying misunderstandings or circumstances, presenting your side of the story, etc. This may allow the DA to reconsider whether charges are warranted.
__________________
Letj is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:26 AM   #99
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
photoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post

Well, he probably wrote the material himself for that site. But he is obviously very impressive and well-credentialed. He's also very highly rated by his students: James*Duane - Regent University - RateMyProfessors.com
I've gone to a lot of talks and I've never seen anyone who could speak so fast yet still be very clear, understandable and interesting.
__________________
photoguy is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #100
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
The part that I bolded is the only thing that I think needs amended. "Never talk to police under any circumstances" is just utterly ridiculous. If you feel like you are being accused or suspected of something, by all means get an attorney if you want to.

Are you really not going to talk to the police if you get robbed? What if you are in a car wreck? Will you talk to the police then? What if you are a witness to a crime? Come on people. Get real.
We might have a little common ground. Quoting myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
I do, however, agree with youbet's caution (above) about using absolutes.
... and that with which I was in agreement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Sometimes a statement which emphasizes never allowing even small exceptions goes a bit too far. Never say never and all that........
__________________

__________________
Rustward is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.