Dorothy, We're Not In Kansas Anymore

[grumpy]

20 months ago we moved from Maryland to Virginia (blue state to red state). The difference has never been more obvious. The state constitution amendment banning gay marriage passed here yesterday by a large margin. The northern Virginia suburbs of D.C. where we live are much more liberal and Democrat than the rest of the state. It does look like Webb (D) will defeat the incumbent Senator George Allen (R) although both are pretty conservative. I guess this old bleeding heart liberal will have to watch his back.

Grumpy

[Martha]

Idaho, South Carolina, Tennesee, Virginia and even the fairly liberal Wisconin passed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendments. Unseemly in my mind. Results are pending in Arizona, South Dakota and Colorado. Colorado would allow domestic partnerships.

On the upside, minimum wage increases were pased in Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, and Nevada, with Colorado still pending.

[kaudrey]

You have lots of company, Grumpy.

My question is, with the state about split 50/50 on Dem/Rep right now (hopefully a little extra for Webb), how did the gay marriage ban get so many votes?

Who are all these Dems voting for it? Or are they really Reps just revolting against Bush?

Karen

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by Martha

Idaho, South Carolina, Tennesee, Virginia and even the fairly liberal Wisconin passed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendments. Unseemly in my mind. Results are pending in Arizona, South Dakota and Colorado. Colorado would allow domestic partnerships.

On the upside, minimum wage increases were pased in Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, and Nevada, with Colorado still pending.

Wisconsin is a fairly liberal state?? Depends on who you talk to..........

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by kaudrey

You have lots of company, Grumpy.

My question is, with the state about split 50/50 on Dem/Rep right now (hopefully a little extra for Webb), how did the gay marriage ban get so many votes?

Who are all these Dems voting for it? Or are they really Reps just revolting against Bush?

Karen

I agree, Reps are revolting!

[youbet]

Originally Posted by Martha

even the fairly liberal Wisconin

Wisconsin has developed a liberal reputation outside of the state. It has a very liberal PBS (WPR) network where the local radio personalities assertively identify themselves as being liberal and aggressively push liberal agendas. They have the Madison campus of U of Wis which is notoriously liberal. Yet, Kerry barely won the state in 2004. The margin was a tiny 5K votes. They need to get their act together. Blabbing about liberal causes on the radio and marching around in earth shoes and long hair on campus may look liberal, but delivering consistent Dem landslides from a well oiled machine is what counts.

But, I like Wisconsin. I'ts Illinois' biggest state park and a fun place to fish, camp, canoe, etc. So, go cheeseheads!

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by youbet

Wisconsin has developed a liberal reputation outside of the state. It has a very liberal PBS (WPR) network where the local radio personalities assertively identify themselves as being liberal and aggressively push liberal agendas. They have the Madison campus of U of Wis which is notoriously liberal. Yet, Kerry barely won the state in 2004. The margin was a tiny 5K votes. They need to get their act together. Blabbing about liberal causes on the radio and marching around in earth shoes and long hair on campus may look liberal, but delivering consistent Dem landslides from a well oiled machine is what counts.

But, I like Wisconsin. I'ts Illinois' biggest state park and a fun place to fish, camp, canoe, etc. So, go cheeseheads!

The reason Kerry barely won is that outside of Dane and Milwaukee counties, where 25% of the stae's population lives, the state is substantially conservative. Of the 72 counties in Wisconsin, nearly 60 are Republican strongholds.

Now if I could get that $5 a vehicle toll on every car with Illinois plates that crosses the border, we would have no debt as a state............

[Brat]

I think it is the magic word 'marriage' that riles some folks. It is always a civil and usually a sacred agreement.

I was asked my opinion by a thoughtful Roman Catholic a few years ago. My response was, "Let's look at what marriage should mean: a commitment to life long mutual financial and emotional support, sexual fidelity. When this commitment is fulfilled fewer are destitute and the STD rate is less. Look at the number of heterosexuals who don't marry because of its obligations. If homosexuals want to assume the obligations of marriage society as a whole is better off."

[maddythebeagle]

I voted no on the "pro-marriage" referendum not because I am nec. for gay marriage but I am anti-stupid referendums....

[BOBOT]

Last week I sent a letter to the local daily rag in which I opined that if the supporters of the amendment were really serious about "protecting marriage" they would stop worrying about gays & outlaw the biggest threat - divorce!

They didn't print it, alas; I guess divorce is a sacred institution of its own.

Anyway, I am surprised by the margin by which it passed; I thought we were better than that here in the Old Dominion.

[donheff]

Originally Posted by kaudrey

...how did the gay marriage ban get so many votes?

Who are all these Dems voting for it? Or are they really Reps just revolting against Bush?

I understand it did not pass in Arizona. I haven't heard the precise results in the rest of the states but the impression I have gotten is that the bans are supported by a small majority in most. There is another way to think of this. Gay marriage is a radical change for America. When many of us were first voting it would have been inconceivable. The fact that Arizona would vote in support and that the question would receive a close run elsewhere shows how much of an attitudinal shift has taken place. Polls indicate that most Americans would approve of civil unions (although at least one state voted to ban these). Marriage is, traditionally, a religious institution - a sacrament for Catholics. From at separation of church and state perspective it is questionable that the state should even be involved in marriage. If we were starting from a blank state we could more sensibly institute state (civil) unions that would establish the property, tax, and other rights and obligations that the state would recognize for partnerships/family units and leave it to religious institutions to add on the gloss of "marriage."

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Wisconsin is a fairly liberal state?? Depends on who you talk to..........

Kohl, Feingold, Milwaukee's socialist mayor years ago, followed by a nearly-socialist mayor (Norquist), Tammy Baldwin, Peoples' Republic of Madison, high property taxes, excellent public schools in many areas. It ain't Vermont, but I'd characterize it as fairly liberal.

No doubt a substantial conservative proportion as well, but if we are generalizing, it is left of center on many important indicators. The hunters have trouble missing the tree huggers .

[youbet]

Originally Posted by Brat

I think it is the magic word 'marriage' that riles some folks.

Yeah, me too. Some religious-active types even have the fear that if gay "marriage" is legalized, it will open the door to lawsuites forcing churches to perform and recognize gay "marriages."

Why not just give a legally binding civil contract between two individuals (same or different sex), that includes all the civil rights and responsibilities of today's "marriage" a different name? A non-threatening name?

[azanon]

Gay marriage is one of the few liberal positions i'm not for. The only gay couple i like to even see together is maybe between two hot females, and that's about it; and that's only if they admit to being bi and open to suitable male invitees. The rest, i just find a bit repulsive; especially two men. Given that, its really hard for me to place a stamp of endorsement on something that usually turns my stomach a bit.

[haha]

Originally Posted by Azanon

Gay marriage is one of the few liberal positions i'm not for. The only gay couple i like to even see together is maybe between two hot females, and that's about it; and that's only if they admit to being bi and open to suitable male invitees. The rest, i just find a bit repulsive; especially two men. Given that, its really hard for me to place a stamp of endorsement on something that usually turns my stomach a bit.

I am sure that the gay-lesbian caucus has been clamoring for your endirsement. "Hey let's get that Azanon guy on our side, then we'll have clear sailing for sure!!"

Ha

[BigMoneyJim]

Originally Posted by Azanon

Gay marriage is one of the few liberal positions i'm not for. The only gay couple i like to even see together is maybe between two hot females, and that's about it; and that's only if they admit to being bi and open to suitable male invitees. The rest, i just find a bit repulsive; especially two men. Given that, its really hard for me to place a stamp of endorsement on something that usually turns my stomach a bit.

By that standard, should ugly fat hetero people also not be able to marry or be seen in public together?

EDIT: And should hot hetero couples be into wife swapping or swinging to get your endorsement?

[azanon]

Originally Posted by HaHa

I am sure that the gay-lesbian caucus has been clamoring for your endirsement. "Hey let's get that Azanon guy on our side, then we'll have clear sailing for sure!!"

Ha

Well, its just one vote, so they can worry about it or not worry about it as much as they want to. But i do get a vote, and i voted yesterday. I guess by default, i'm on their side, since i vote exclusively democrat (usually).

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by Azanon

Gay marriage is one of the few liberal positions i'm not for. The only gay couple i like to even see together is maybe between two hot females, and that's about it; and that's only if they admit to being bi and open to suitable male invitees. The rest, i just find a bit repulsive; especially two men. Given that, its really hard for me to place a stamp of endorsement on something that usually turns my stomach a bit.

Wow...........just wow............