Dress code issues

[harley]

They can certainly fire you, but the expense of a lawsuit would be high if it was taken pro-bono by a pro-employee lawyer.

Of course, the government and military can do what they want, they are exempt from many laws.

An employer would be hard pressed to explain how a pair of shorts or jeans was a problem, but a women's dress above the knees was OK. A pair of men's sandals was not OK, but a woman's open toe shoe was OK. Or that some forms of religious clothing was better than a pair of jeans. Or a woman's sleeveless shirt was OK, but my sleeveless shirt was not.'

Just because a piece of clothing is denim, doesn't make it bad.

I don't think so. Usually when you accept a job you sign papers, many papers, and some of them state you will follow the rules of the company. Not following them can be grounds for dismissal. Clothes, internet use, personal phone calls, many many things. Sure, you can bring a lawsuit. Anybody can sue anyone for anything. It takes no particular knowledge or skill. But try to find a job after that. Of course, then you can sue the company that doesn't hire you. Maybe good training for a career as a patent troll. And of course, most megacorps have legions of lawyers sitting around just waiting for something to do. Responding to silly lawsuits with reams of paper to overwhelm said pro-bono crusader is what passes for a good time for them.

 

[growing_older]

I have rarely worked in megacorp with a formal dress code, but everywhere I have worked did have at least an unstated dress code. Sales always wore "business" attire such as suits, ties or suitable dresses/suits. Service was usually khakis and collar shirts. East coast managers wore suits. West coast managers wore not-suits, usually some kind of business casual. Technical staff was jeans or worse. At one point it became a show of technical prowess how poorly engineers could dress, presumably an engineer must be very good indeed to wear what they wore, until the CEO finally drew the line at ragged shorts, flip flops and ripped t-shirts.

None of these places would have tolerated an intern petitioning for change, in dress code, or any other aspect of work. They would have been immediately let go, and made into a cautionary tale for future interns.

 

[Meadbh]

In the healthcare industry things are usually fairly conservative, and many staff wear uniforms. I once hired a Gen X data analyst (not required to interact directly with patients, but visible around the hospital) who interviewed in a suit but began showing up for work with a bare midriff showing a belly button with jewelry in it. The dress code was pretty vague (I don't think they anticipated belly buttons) and she didn't see that there was a problem, but she complied with my request for more modest dress on the grounds that many of our patients and staff would see her attire as unprofessional and disrespectful. Unfortunately, her liberal attitude extended to her work, and after many attempts to help her improve her performance, I let her go at the end of her probation period.

 

[bclover]

The interns forgot the basic rule of "make yourself valuable first, before you make waves."

Amen!!

Most new hires at my company are on probation for 9 months and all of us where "at will" employees. Yes, if we had a bunch of interns who immediately came in and started "grumbling" about something as inane as what to wear, we would have let them go.

I read the article and what I can't understand is that the letter writer says she felt the dress code was strict when she got the internship. well if you thought it was strict going in why did you take the internship?

 

[bclover]

I don't think so. Usually when you accept a job you sign papers, many papers, and some of them state you will follow the rules of the company. Not following them can be grounds for dismissal. Clothes, internet use, personal phone calls, many many things. Sure, you can bring a lawsuit. Anybody can sue anyone for anything. It takes no particular knowledge or skill. But try to find a job after that. Of course, then you can sue the company that doesn't hire you. Maybe good training for a career as a patent troll. And of course, most megacorps have legions of lawyers sitting around just waiting for something to do. Responding to silly lawsuits with reams of paper to overwhelm said pro-bono crusader is what passes for a good time for them.

+100
lol, I personally know of two young women who sued my mega corporation. One, I am fairly good friends with . she sued for unjust firing also. first of all it took her 4 years to finally "win", and all those stories of mega awards are grossly over estimated, the judge awarded her a lousy 2 years salary and by the time she was finished with lawyer fees and a few other bills she wishes she had simply just quit. Not to mention the emotional toll it took.

 

[misshathaway]

In the healthcare industry things are usually fairly conservative, and many staff wear uniforms. I once hired a Gen X data analyst (not required to interact directly with patients, but visible around the hospital) who interviewed in a suit but began showing up for work with a bare midriff showing a belly button with jewelry in it. The dress code was pretty vague (I don't think they anticipated belly buttons) and she didn't see that there was a problem, but she complied with my request for more modest dress on the grounds that many of our patients and staff would see her attire as unprofessional and disrespectful. Unfortunately, her liberal attitude extended to her work, and after many attempts to help her improve her performance, I let her go at the end of her probation period.

My last job was at a hospital. They have a strict dress code and promote covering up for the young'uns by keeping the office air freezing cold. Not enough of a deterrent. Once I saw a coworker walking down the hall in a bra. Double-take. Nope - bra under a sheer, flesh-colored, long sleeve blouse. Then I was talking to another worker about how we did not envy her male manager. What an awkward conversation to have to have.

At my first corporate programming job the women had to wear dresses and nylons. There was one manager who would walk around and inspect people's legs in the summer for nylon compliance. Not sure if he was assigned this task or just liked it.

 

[NW-Bound]

The bulk of my career was in aerospace. In the late 70s when I started working, there was no strict dress code. I myself never wore jeans (my wife bought me my first jeans 10 years ago, and I wore it rarely), but I think others did with no problems. Besides managers, the workers did not wear jackets or ties, except when we had a meeting with outside visitors.

I left aerospace business for a few years. When I came back in the early 2000s as consultant, I was surprised to see people not wearing jackets and ties to meetings anymore. Even the visitors did not, and the same happened when we visited vendors or customers. It had to be a very high level meeting for people to dress more formally. No jeans to meetings though.

The above said, t-shirts were frowned upon, and shorts and flip-flops were big nonos. One time, on a casual Friday, a clerical girl baring midriff elicited comments that she looked like a streetwalker soliciting. Don't know if her manager talked to her, but she did that only once.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I know of one mega dutch-owned oil company that has no dress code, in the US anyway

alternatively, one of my late friends had to wear a dress hat to work when he started at Baker Botts in the 70s

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Speaking of dress codes...does anyone else find it odd that NBA coaches wear jackets and ties? I always wondered why that was...you are a coach. Granted, you lead an organization that is worth MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars..but..you are a coach. Why the suit?

 

[Big_Hitter]

Speaking of dress codes...does anyone else find it odd that NBA coaches wear jackets and ties? I always wondered why that was...you are a coach. Granted, you lead an organization that is worth MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars..but..you are a coach. Why the suit?

tradition; every male basketball coach I've seen, college or higher wears a suit

that's why we yell "sit down bus driver!"

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

tradition; every male basketball coach I've seen, college or higher wears a suit

that's why we yell "sit down bus driver!"

Interesting. Speaking of sports traditions, I am slightly annoyed that baseball players don't "blouse" their pants anymore (well, most of them don't). They look like a bunch of bums out there in their pajamas.

And yes...even though I am just 42...I still yell, "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

 

[Just_Steve]

Speaking of dress codes...does anyone else find it odd that NBA coaches wear jackets and ties? I always wondered why that was...you are a coach. Granted, you lead an organization that is worth MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars..but..you are a coach. Why the suit?

NHL coaches also ware jackets and ties, what I find more absurd is baseball managers in full baseball uniforms.

 

[Big_Hitter]

NHL coaches also ware jackets and ties, what I find more absurd is baseball managers in full baseball uniforms.

have you ever seen anyone in the dugout without a uniform?

 

[2017ish]

have you ever seen anyone in the dugout without a uniform?

I haven't, but our grandparents may have seen this hall-of-famer:

Connie Mack

Granted, a bit dated--and he was even then noted for his apparel.

 

[Just_Steve]

have you ever seen anyone in the dugout without a uniform?

A bit before my time but Connie Mack comes to mind.

 

[Big_Hitter]

thanks I've never seen that!

 

[MRG]

There was a time when HR and I got into it over my lax attempts to have my team abide the dress code. All over one young lady who wore crapi pants. You weren't allowed to wear those and as I learned only 35% of woman's shoes were acceptable! They actually sent me catalog pictures of acceptable styles. The nonsense came to a head when I said "checking out the woman's shoes makes me feel very uncomfortable". There were some attempts to have another female manager mentor me; she thought the whole thing insane as well. The code was redone soon after.

 

[HadEnuff]

NHL coaches also ware jackets and ties, what I find more absurd is baseball managers in full baseball uniforms.

yeah. DW is not a baseball fan, and she nearly always asks why the old, fat managers and coaches wear uniforms, "like they're gonna play, or something?"

My only answer is "because it's tradition"...which really sounds even stupider when you say it out loud.

 

[Just_Steve]

yeah. DW is not a baseball fan, and she nearly always asks why the old, fat managers and coaches wear uniforms, "like they're gonna play, or something?"

My only answer is "because it's tradition"...which really sounds even stupider when you say it out loud.

Terry Francona bucks the tradition

 

[GrayHare]

A reasonable dress code is basically impossible to put into words in part because interpretation of "reasonable" varies from not only person to person but situation to situation. Something simple like "clean and neat" sounds fair to me but everyone has their own image of what that means. No matter how simple or complex the dress code someone will go militant and intentionally push the limits, then that can spread. I think the only way to handle the matter is to overlook promotion of people who decline to be reasonable as defined by their boss.

 

[HFWR]

Don't need no stinkin' dress code...

 

[frayne]

Every profession has a dress code, I don't care what profession it is. I liked the comment you dress for the position you want to attain or at least for the next position for the rung on the ladder in corporate terms. Knowing how to dress daily is a no brainer as is dressing appropriately for the corporate function. I've always found that the better you dressed, the better people, those higher up, could relate to you if your sucking your way up the corporate tit.

In retrospect it is all kind of ridiculous but that is the way it is.

 

[braumeister]

A reasonable dress code is basically impossible to put into words.

Not impossible, but apparently not easy either.

The US Army needs 57 pages (AR 670-1)
The US Air Force needs 180 pages (AFI 36-2903)
The US Navy needs 389 pages (NAVPERS 15665I)

 

[Nemo2]

Not impossible, but apparently not easy either.

The US Army needs 57 pages (AR 670-1)
The US Air Force needs 180 pages (AFI 36-2903)
The US Navy needs 389 pages (NAVPERS 15665I)

It's soooo much easier in North Korea, where everyone, except Kim Jong-un, wears the same uniform.

 

[MichaelB]

Not impossible, but apparently not easy either.

The US Army needs 57 pages (AR 670-1)
The US Air Force needs 180 pages (AFI 36-2903)
The US Navy needs 389 pages (NAVPERS 15665I)

That's amazing, especially the 389 pages. Brings to mind our company legal counsel, who was an excellent advisor. She always advocated for simplicity, saying detail always led to more detail. This is probably what she had in mind.