Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-15-2013, 11:18 PM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,201
I think new awards to recognize drone pilots make sense. Probably the guy who thought of it got an award for coming up with the idea.
__________________

__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #22
Recycles dryer sheets
Avalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 424
I don't think the guy flying this 'wasp' got a medal. Wonder if he saw it coming?

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...icture942.html
__________________

__________________

...open up your mind and see like me...
Avalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:19 PM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
TOOLMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclarksnakes View Post
A drone pilot wouldn't make a pimple on a real pilots ass.

When I was learning to fly 20 yrs ago, I found MS Flight Simulator harder than the real thing, albeit much less stresful.

Flying teaches your the meaning of comitment. The number of landings always equals the number of takeoffs, you don't have the option to disengage.
__________________
TOOLMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:45 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,535
If your ass is on the line, you should get a medal. If your ass is in an easy chair half way around the world, you should get some type of proficieny award. No comparision between the two and two cents says the idiot that thought the drone pilot award should be higher than the bronze star with V device probably never saw a day of real combat in his life.
__________________
A totally unblemished life is only for saints.
frayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 06:06 PM   #25
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Long time lurker delurking.

Never mind how unjust these invasions are....Giving out medals for playing video games and assassinating innocent women and children is repulsive.

This also degrades those soldiers on the ground from Normandy and others who were truly deserving of reward.

Another token of the decline of America.
__________________
Rimonabant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 06:48 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimonabant View Post
Long time lurker delurking.

Never mind how unjust these invasions are....Giving out medals for playing video games and assassinating innocent women and children is repulsive.

This also degrades those soldiers on the ground from Normandy and others who were truly deserving of reward.

Another token of the decline of America.
Wow, guess you have a low opinion of theses men and women who pilot these things. They make mistakes, but they don't target children. Now during WWII we did target "civilians". Hmmm....
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 07:36 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimonabant View Post
Long time lurker delurking.

Never mind how unjust these invasions are....Giving out medals for playing video games and assassinating innocent women and children is repulsive.
.
Suggest you take up the invasion issue with the CIC and your elected representative(s). As well as the target selections for the drone pilots.

The drone pilots' skills are impressive and well beyond video gaming. It is the the potential awards of medals and the medals ranking in the scheme of things which are the main issue of the thread.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 07:42 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
Suggest you take up the invasion issue with the CIC and your elected representative(s). As well as the target selections for the drone pilots.

The drone pilots' skills are impressive and well beyond video gaming. It is the the potential awards of medals and the medals ranking in the scheme of things which are the main issue of the thread.
+1

This is a discussion of medals, not a morality debate.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 09:01 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,072
I am mortified regarding this medal - while I believe we should reward the REMF in some way or fashion, it should not be equivalent to that of someone at the pointy end of a spear getting shot at. I think what is going on is the higher brass are trying to make sure that the RPV pilots do not lose out on future promotions, etc, as many times the medals are given points towards promotion rankings at the boards. I remember a 3-star saying it would be hard to incentivize a pilot who did only remote piloting versus the guy strapped into the plane. The reality is there will be fewer planes available for future pilots and remotely piloted vehicles and cyber war will be the future - nevertheless, they are not the same even though they may cause similar damage to the enemy....

A Bronze star is a big deal - usually means you were in the firefight 'in-person.' Can one say that being there virtually is the same - I think not. That is why there is an uproar....they should probably go back and look at this again, or wait until we are totally virtual or 80-90% virtual before awarding equivalency for career purposes.
__________________
Deserat aka Bridget
“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” - George Orwell/Winston Churchill
deserat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 09:31 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by deserat View Post
I am mortified regarding this medal - while I believe we should reward the REMF in some way or fashion, it should not be equivalent to that of someone at the pointy end of a spear getting shot at. I think what is going on is the higher brass are trying to make sure that the RPV pilots do not lose out on future promotions, etc, as many times the medals are given points towards promotion rankings at the boards. I remember a 3-star saying it would be hard to incentivize a pilot who did only remote piloting versus the guy strapped into the plane. The reality is there will be fewer planes available for future pilots and remotely piloted vehicles and cyber war will be the future - nevertheless, they are not the same even though they may cause similar damage to the enemy....

A Bronze star is a big deal - usually means you were in the firefight 'in-person.' Can one say that being there virtually is the same - I think not. That is why there is an uproar....they should probably go back and look at this again, or wait until we are totally virtual or 80-90% virtual before awarding equivalency for career purposes.

I believe a bronze star with v device means that the individual received the award because of valor in combat. Just receiving the bronze star now means they did something good while in the combat zone. Commonly it is given just for doing your tour in the combat zone. A similar medal is the MSM Meritorious Service Medal which is given for similar acts/service while not in a combat zone or during peace time. Many of the people who received bronze stars went to work in an office (in a combat zone) and likely had a safer commute than the drone pilots.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #31
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimnjana View Post
I believe a bronze star with v device means that the individual received the award because of valor in combat. Just receiving the bronze star now means they did something good while in the combat zone.
I guess my concern is that I just don't see sitting in front of a joystick out of harm's way in some Air Force base halfway across the world (or wherever) qualifies as being in a "combat zone". I don't mean to belittle the skill of these pilots at all and perhaps they deserve some award or commendation for meritorious service, but to me it cheapens the value of a "combat medal" to consider this similarly in the same category as the "boots on the ground" in the actual combat zone or those actually flying within it.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 06:26 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
Nice first post. Looking forward to more posts from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimonabant View Post
Long time lurker delurking.

Never mind how unjust these invasions are....Giving out medals for playing video games and assassinating innocent women and children is repulsive.

This also degrades those soldiers on the ground from Normandy and others who were truly deserving of reward.

Another token of the decline of America.
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 06:43 PM   #33
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
Nice first post. Looking forward to more posts from you.
Surely you are joking.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 06:57 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah in sc View Post
surely you are joking.
........ ....\/
... .............\/
........... .....\/
Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
my thoughts exactly.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 07:15 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lakewood90712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,316
This question is for those who did serve , as I did not :
If one of the Drone pilots declined to accept the medal , award etc, would that cause career damage ? or just get a frown from his/her C.O. ( when I say decline to accept , as in thanks , but no thanks in private, not making a public specticle )
__________________
Lakewood90712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 08:30 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
martyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bossier City
Posts: 2,182
It would be pretty hard to imagine anybody still serving to decline a medal. I've never heard of that happening. I did serve, but the highest thing I ever received was a MSM (Meritorious Service Medal).
__________________
martyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 08:46 PM   #37
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by frayne View Post
If your ass is on the line, you should get a medal. If your ass is in an easy chair half way around the world, you should get some type of proficieny award.
Uh, drone pilots lives may not be on the line *physically*, but apparently they are emotionally; studies show they also suffer PTSD, guilt, etc. Killing people takes a toll on the soul, even if they deserve to die (this from a psychologist friend who's done VA work).
__________________
RustyShackleford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:04 PM   #38
Recycles dryer sheets
studbucket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kirkland
Posts: 139
I am far from qualified from taking part in this debate, but Nova recently ran a program on Drones that I found interesting. You can watch it at the following link: NOVA | Rise of the Drones

While not in direct physical danger, a drone pilot's job did not seem easy and there was some possibility of danger if their identity or whereabouts was discovered.
__________________
Aiming to retire at or before 2031 at age 45.

Status: Saving. Started in Oct 2011, I am ~9 months ahead of where I expected to be and about ~3 months ahead of my desired schedule.
studbucket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 11:45 PM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah in SC View Post
Surely you are joking.
I feel the same way and I'm definitely not joking.

I don't completely agree with his post because I surely don't believe the drone pilots are deliberately targeting innocents (man, woman, or child) but surely lots of them are being killed - which brings us back to the justness of the invasions. Which isn't the topic of this thread, of course.

Still, it's a refreshing counterpoint to the pervasive rightwing law&order tone of these forums.
__________________
RustyShackleford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 12:34 AM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyShackleford View Post
the pervasive rightwing law&order tone of these forums.
Surely you are joking.
__________________

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:04 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.