Dumb Americans and let the arrows fly!

[dumpster56]

Lets see 11 hours sitting on a plane at JFK airport yesterday and the PATRIOT ACT law says that you cannot leave the airplane once it leaves the gate. Punishment is 20 YEARS in federal prison!!!!!!!!

Why do americans continue to fly??

Everyone on that plane should sue the pants off Jet Blue!

 

[RedHawk]

There was an interview on CNBC this afternoon with the JetBlue Ceo. He said that customers had a right to be mad and that it was a situation that spiraled out of control.

 

[dumpster56]

There was an interview on CNBC this afternoon with the JetBlue Ceo. He said that customers had a right to be mad and that it was a situation that spiraled out of control.

What is so hard about getting a ladder to the plane and letting people off?

The planes were not going anyplace with that Ice yesterday. No excuse. Just bad planning by an industry that has too few workers and bad management.

I say let the airlines go bankrupt and DO NOT BAIL THESE A$$HOLES OUT!!!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Eh, dont get me started or i'll tell you about the story where the airline did the same thing to make sure we didnt just walk away and go to another airline, had us sitting on the ground in newark for about 8 hours with no air conditioning.

This was after an hour long cab ride in 100 degree weather in a cab where every time we went over a bump all the windows fell down and had to be cranked up. After the first half dozen times, we finished the ride with each of us pressing up against the window to keep it up so the bad air conditioning had half a chance.

When we arrived at our destination there was no gate available as we were ridiculously late, so we sat on the tarmac there with no a/c for another four hours before we got off.

Then my luggage was missing.

My ride was 2 hours late due to a bizarre car accident in one of the access tunnels to the airport, yet because I didnt know this (pre cell phone days) I stood outside in the heat the whole time until they showed up. At that point I estimate that I'd become completely soaked in sweat and then re-dried at least six full cycles.

When I got home my refrigerator was busted and had been off for four days, producing a nice smell and losing several hundred bucks in food, including about 40 pints of ben and jerrys ice cream that they'd given me on a sales call a couple of weeks before.

The next day I got a call that my luggage had been found, and it looked like it had been thrown off the plane, lit on fire and then put out with urine. It had two brand new suits and three new shirt in it, key operative word being "had". I was allowed something like a hundred bucks for "damage fees" and sent on my way.

Later that week my new refrigerator was delivered and it was the wrong size...too big to fit into the alcove in the kitchen once I'd unboxed it and hauled it into the house.

So I got to haul it back out, call to have it picked up and wait another week for the correct size replacement...that made a couple of weeks living out of a couple of ice chests in the kitchen.

Oops...my bad, thats the story.

So 11 hours on a plane aint that bad.

 

[sgeeeee]

There was an interview on CNBC this afternoon with the JetBlue Ceo. He said that customers had a right to be mad and that it was a situation that spiraled out of control.

Better be careful showing you're mad anywhere near an airport today. Look at the stats on arrests at airports since 9/11. A lot of homeland security money went into beefing up police forces in airports. Now you have all these gung-ho cops with nothing to do but arrest anyone who displays frustration. The charges aren't pretty. Be careful.

 

[samclem]

Now you have all these gung-ho cops with nothing to do but arrest anyone who displays frustration. The charges aren't pretty. Be careful.

The antics of some of these travelers aren't pretty. Everyone who has travelled a lot has been stranded occcassionally, has had their bag lost, etc. Air travel ain't what it used to be. Still, I do not understand these whackos who come unglued at the person working the customer service line--it gets personal, it gets ugly, and it is entirely unproductive. I don't know about arresting them for rudeness, but I'm not unhappy that there are folks around to give them a little cooling off time in a small room when they threaten violence.

 

[bssc]

This is why we routinely drive to Vegas and LA from Phoenix. And Denver too.

 

[sgeeeee]

One of the great benefits of retirement is that DW and I can spend a day or two driving where we want to go rather than go through airports.

We were talking today about a trip we need to take to Hawaii in June. We've never been to Hawaii, so we are a little bit excited, but today our conversation was about how miserable flying to and from there would be.

 

[bssc]

One of the great benefits of retirement is that DW and I can spend a day or two driving where we want to go rather than go through airports.

We were talking today about a trip we need to take to Hawaii in June. We've never been to Hawaii, so we are a little bit excited, but today our conversation was about how miserable flying to and from there would be.

You must be able to drive to Hawaii. After all, it has Interstates.

 

[Outtahere]

Better be careful showing you're mad anywhere near an airport today. Look at the stats on arrests at airports since 9/11.

That's why dh won't fly anymore. He's not so worried about the airport it's being in the plane, he is claustrophobic and usually gets a script from his doc to calm him down. He's really afraid he'll freak out and end up in federal prison. Thankfully I don't mind driving where we want to go.

Long before 9/11 we ended up on the runway for over 3 hours waiting for a storm to pass one of the NY airports. If this had been now dh would be arrested, he insisted he needed to go to the mens room, the steward told him to sit down, it got ugly (word wise), dh went to go to the mens room.

 

[Dreamer]

The airplane troubles were due to the weather. Driving would not have helped if you were in Eastern PA. I heard that some people were stuck on the interstate for over a full day. I would not like to be stuck anywhere, but if I have to be then I want to be stuck where there is a bathroom!

 

[Empty Pockets]

What do pilots say..."Time to spare? go by air".

This explains why the real wealthy people have their own aircraft with a professional flight crew.

 

[dumpster56]

The airplane troubles were due to the weather. Driving would not have helped if you were in Eastern PA. I heard that some people were stuck on the interstate for over a full day. I would not like to be stuck anywhere, but if I have to be then I want to be stuck where there is a bathroom!

If the plane is not going to fly NOBODY should have to stay on board for over 11 HOURS!!!


As was the case on that JET BLUE PLANE!

Bring a ladder to the plane and let people off PERIOD!

The fact that we let our REPRESENTATIVES pass the provisions of the PATRIOT ACT that say if you get off a plane in THAT type of situation you can get 20 years is utterly$&^^%^*% RIDICULUS!

Oh the bathrooms, uh there are two on that plane and they were well FULL to the brim.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Some of our elected officials that passed this legislation would be up in the air if they heard we treated subjected our war prisoners to these conditions.

 

[samclem]

newguy,
- I agree the situation was bad. I'd be hopping mad if I were on that airplane. The airline has admitted the mistake. They'll make some kind of amends to the passengers, and maybe somebody will sue them and get a bit more money. That's the way the system works (when the main system doesn't work, as it plainly didn't here)

When passengers are aboard an airplane, the law states they must comply with crewmember instructions (just like the recording says while the gal demonstrates use of the seatbelt). That's been going on for long before the Patriot Act. That means no getting up to demand to be let off the plane, it will likely mean no screaming, no opening the emergency exits, etc. I personally can live with that. Locked in an aluminum tube packed in with a bunch of frustrated, mad strangers is an explosive enough environment that temporary suspension of some civil liberties for the sake of safety seems to be in the public interest overall.

I think a practical approach to this situation (provided cell phones were allowed to be used, and there's no reason they wouldn't be) is for every person on that plane to have called their relatives and got a big phone barrage going. Friends, family, direct calls from the plane to the airline, to the FAA, to the airport manager, to personal injury lawyers, to legislators, to the airline ticket reservations desks, to the local news station, (We're stranded here!! It stinks, it is freezing!!! Bring the truck!! Oy, I'm passing out!!) etc. Oh yeah, something would have been done long before 11 hours.


But, get this:
Hey, the other day they put a pickle on my Big Mac! I clearly told the drive-through cashier "NO PICKLE", but when I bit into that sandwich THERE IT WAS. And, there were more than one--it was a deliberate application of these pickles! You can bet I looked at that receipt--it said "NO PKLE" which I think means "no pickle." But, somebody put pickleS on it anyway! Oh, sure, some may say that this was just a "mistake", but I'm not buying that! It has happened before to me--what are the odds of that! Doesn't anybody train these people? Who was there to double-check the burger--that cook guy could have put anything in there! McDonalds has deep pockets and I'm gonna find the bottom of them, yes sirree!

 

[tryan]

After about hour 6 ....

FAKE A HEART ATTACK ... then when they wheel you into the terminal REFUSE MEDICAL HELP ... get up and walk away.

If they can't/won't make the right decision. MAKE IT FOR THEM !!

 

[Empty Pockets]

I remember an episode of LA Law many years ago when cell phones were just coming out when one of the attorneys got stuck on a plane like this and made a call and got a judge to order them off the plane.

Then he got arrested.

But that was just television, and that was almost 20 years ago.

 

[Brat]

I really like the idea of the telephone surge!!! While they are at it call the TV stations, they always like a hot story.. it fills time, is cheap to cover, and everone can relate.

 

[TromboneAl]

I've been wondering about this situation.

Here's why I figure there wasn't a real revolt:

Imagine that you're on the plane, and you're headed to Aruba. Now, the captain doesn't come on the speaker and say

"Well, folks, we're having some weather problems, and it looks like we're going to have to sit hear for about eleven hours. Sorry for the convenience, and thanks for flying JetBlue."

Instead (I'm guessing), the passengers have the feeling that any minute now, the plane will start moving, everyone will cheer and laugh, and it won't be long before they're sipping Mai Tai's on the beach. They don't want to jinx that scenario by demanding that the plane return to the gate.

If it was the former, I'd think everyone would be chanting "LET US OFF!" -- something that would be very effective, provided you don't go to jail.

 

[rs0460a]

I would not like to be stuck anywhere, but if I have to be then I want to be stuck where there is a bathroom!

Senad Ramic, a St. Louis trucker who fled the civil strife in his native Bosnia in 1998, was less delicate on the topic, assuring a reporter that the highway functions as a massive outdoor toilet at times such as these.


http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5color78feb16,0,7592961.story?coll=all-news-hed

 

[bright eyed]

i hope they had more provisions then soda and those blue chips!

 

[samclem]

Instead (I'm guessing), the passengers have the feeling that any minute now, the plane will start moving, everyone will cheer and laugh, and it won't be long before they're sipping Mai Tai's on the beach. They don't want to jinx that scenario by demanding that the plane return to the gate.

Right. And the crew surely didn't know they'd be stuck on the ramp for 11 hours when they pushed back from the gate. It is always a series of events, each happening sequentially. Airplane pushes back, then a storm moves in that prohibits movement on the ramp. As that clears, they are delayed for traffic control reasons (since al the planes that have been waiting to land will get priority, then the takeoffs). Then, there'll be ripple effects at the destination airports--so more waiting while they get an arrival slot time. Dang, look at that ice on the wings--we need to make a pass through the de-icer before we take depart. Well, now we're below min fuel, need more gas. Now there's a storm at our intended destination. Well, this crew is will run ot of legal duty day before we get there, we'll need to change crews. etc, etc.

I don't want Mr Important, who is going to miss his big meeting, to be allowed to get up 45 minutes after pushing back and demand to be let off the plane because he knows he can get another flight. Too bad. Everyone should have full recourse against the airline--after they get off.

 

[Brat]

Sorry SamClem, passengers on the tarmac after 45 minutes in stormy conditions should be given the option of rescue. There is NO EXCUSE for what happened. Yes, the dispatcher didn't anticipate the problems but that doesn't relieve them from the obligation to fix the problem.

Any airport prone to this type of weather should have mobile stairs usable under those conditions.

 

[Leonidas]

Lets see 11 hours sitting on a plane at JFK airport yesterday and the PATRIOT ACT law says that you cannot leave the airplane once it leaves the gate. Punishment is 20 YEARS in federal prison!!!!!!!!

Newguy, I think you’re seeing fascist PATRIOT act boogiemen.

This kind of thing has been going on for years, long before 9/11, and has nothing to do with the PATRIOT act.

Jet Blue deserves the blame for this, but they’re not the only airline to do this kind of thing. A friend of mine from high school got stuck on the ground in Detroit for nine hours (long before 9/11) on a Northwest flight. The problem then is no doubt the same problem that Jet Blue had. Bad weather starts causing delays, and unless an airport is closed, the airlines make their own decisions about continuing flight operations. Busy airports and airlines that have cut costs to the bone mean that they often have to either cancel a flight because of the possibility that an airport will be closed, or gamble that the airport will stay open and board the passengers in order to clear the gate for the next flight.

My friend told me about his experience with Northwest and why it happened. It was a lot like Samclem described, a cascading series of events that mushroomed into a giant foul-up. The airline kept flying even though other airlines had already decided that a snowstorm in Detroit was going to cause major delays. They wound up landing flights there only to find taxiways were unsafe to move on, and other aircraft that were unable to leave were blocking all the gates. Even if they could get a plane to the terminal there was no open gates to unload passengers. By the time Northwest realized how screwed up everything was on the ground at Detroit they had a lot of passengers who had already spent hours sitting on the ground. Then they were stuck with too few employees in Detroit to organize a rapid and effective “rescue” effort, and not enough busses or portable stairs to go out and get people off the planes in an efficient manner. From listening to the Jet Blue CEO last night, it sounds like they did just about the same thing as Northwest did.

 

[samclem]

Sorry SamClem, passengers on the tarmac after 45 minutes in stormy conditions should be given the option of rescue. There is NO EXCUSE for what happened. Yes, the dispatcher didn't anticipate the problems but that doesn't relieve them from the obligation to fix the problem.

Any airport prone to this type of weather should have mobile stairs usable under those conditions.

There's no excuse, but there's surely an explanation. As you'll appreciate, an airplane isn't a bus. It's not just a matter of opening the airstair and letting a passenger off. For example, in some instances one or more engines will need to be shut down on the port side before disembarking passengers. Shuttting down/restarting an engine is another checklist procedure. Then, you've got the problem with Mr Important's checked luggage--does he get it back? How long will that take? Or, does it go on without him? Does the airline have to buy him new suits? Oh, now it's been 2 hours and Ms Important decides she wants to get off. Back to square one.

Also, I'm fairly sure it is illegal to allow passengers to walk across the ramp when lightning is within 5 miles of the airport. Or to allow ramp crews to drive a truck out there to get them.

I don't know all the particulars about this flight, but there's no doubt that several mistakes were made. Several hundred other flights were executd withput problem. This falls into the category of "oops--well, what can we do to prevent a similar probem in the future, and how many free flight coupons should we issue"