devans0 - you are wrong on [-]almost[/-] every point.
As for subsidies, calculating ethanol taxes as liquor, then counting the break from those prices reduced to fuel taxes as federal subsidies is disingenuous to say the least.
And it is disingenuous to infer that is what I (or anyone) said. The ethanol subsidy is
not the lack of collecting liquor tax - it isn't sold as liquor, so that tax is not due, just like it is not due on the denatured alcohol I buy for my home workshop. There are subsidies and tariffs to reduce competition from countries that can make it more efficient than we can. They are outright subsidies, paid per gallon blended. See
Ethanol fuel in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or google on your own.
BTW, farm states throughout history have payed more into the Fed coffers than they receive back. Can the same be said of a large oil drilling state?
I don't know, I'd have to look it up - but it's a straw-man argument. Even if it's true, it doesn't change the fact they got a subsidy for ethanol-fuel.
Oh and BTW, after a bit of googling, I see it's not true.
Is Your State A Net Giver or Taker of Federal Taxes? | The Big Picture
Iowa, the corn capital rcv $1.31 for every $1 paid in fed tax.
Iowa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Iowa is the nation's largest producer of ethanol and corn
Ethanol sold for fuel is denatured and sold with a small amount of water listed. It leaves the factory as 200 proof quality, but it picks up water by condensation and absorbed from the air, in shipping. It is a slight amount of water, but water expands 1500 times when it turns to steam. My DW's Prius measures fuel consumption continuously, and I have notices a consistent 2-3 mpg gain. This helps offset some of alcohol's lower mpg. Just my personal observation, hence the caveat "crackpot science".
Regardless of the science or reasons why, if this were true, don't you think ethanol producers would make the claim that you get improved mpg due to using free water in the air? But they don't, because they know ethanol has a lower energy content per gallon than gasoline. Period.
[edit/add] - But to address the science a bit, the energy to make that water expand to steam would come from the fuel. There is no free lunch.
Ethanol is made from converted corn starch from #2 dent field corn. This corn is only grown as livestock feed.
OK, partial credit on the detail, not the point you were trying to make. Yes, #2 dent. But it
is also used for human consumption - corn meal, corn syrup, corn oil, corn starch, etc.
Corn
From 12 to 15 percent of the crop is processed for starch, corn sugar, syrup, corn oil, corn-oil meal, gluten feed and meal, whiskey, alcohol, and for direct human food in the form of corn flakes, corn meal, hominy and grits.
If field corn is fed as feed, the starch isn't digested, but is passed through in manure.
Amazing. Look at the nutrient content in corn - ~ 85% of the calorie content is from starch. I guess those farmers are really stupid, trying to fatten up cattle in feedlots on corn, when it just goes right through all four stomachs (which can break down cellulose - much tougher than starch!) as waste. What a waste!
Oh, and just in case my memory failed me, and that
wasn't corn my Dad fed our cattle (maybe it was left over Halloween Candy-Corn?), here it is from some Canadian researchers:
www.agromedia.ca/ADM_Articles/content/lactose.pdf
Starch degradation in the rumen
The primary energy source for the high-producing cow is starch, derived mainly from cereal silages and grains. As suggested in figure 1, starch is composed of long chains of glucose molecules. Depending on the source, level of intake and method of processing, from 42 to 94% of the starch consumed can be degraded in the rumen (see article 1B3).
Ethanol producers remove this potentially wasted starch, add more nutrients such as calcium and B complex from the beer making residue to the starch-less feed, and resell this better feed to livestock farmers. This is the efficiency that is ignored by environmentalists.
Sure, there is some food quality left after removing the starch, ~ 15%. So it is used as feed, but 85% of the calorie content is gone. I don't think that is ignored in the calculations, but I've provided enough links, your turn if you want to challenge that.
I have watched commodity prices of ethanol move in lock step with gasoline prices for years. Market pricing means that the big market seller (oil) sets the price.
No. Market pricing means that the big market seller
and buyer come to an agreement on the price when they make a transaction.
The little guy is guaranteed to sell out of all that he can make, as long as he keeps his price under the big seller. If last month, the big seller tripled his price. Does the little seller keep his price the same, or triple his price too?
Every seller tries to get the maximum price for his product. What's that got to do with anything?
-ERD50
