Electrical Wiring Question

[TromboneAl]

I'm replacing a broken old long-tube fluorescent fixture with a track light track that will have CFLs in it. In taking the old one off I find that there's no junction box, just wires that come out of a hole in the ceiling.

I could easily just connect the wires, and attach the track interface directly to the ceiling, but to do it right I should install a junction box, right? If so I'm guessing there's a "designer" style junction box that can be attached even though the ceiling is already installed, yes?

Thanks.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Most of the fluorescent and track lighting I've installed or replaced didnt use a junction box. Pretty much those are for a place to join the wires and contain the wire nuts. If the fixture has a place for those to safely reside, thats probably good enough.

My old house had some creative non-use of outlets and boxes. My favorite was the 220v wire coming right out of the wall and screwed into the connections inside the stove. I guess a box, outlet and 220v plug cord was $20 that couldnt be afforded...

If you put in a box, there are "post construction" drywall boxes that are pretty easy to install. Cut a hole, run the cord through the box, set the box in place and turn a couple of screws to 'lock' a few little arms in behind the drywall and hold the box in place.

[UncleHoney]

TBone

It is acceptable to use a strain relief/cable clamp connector on the back of the track and then do the wiring inside the track. You might have to open the hole in the ceiling to get the connector to fit.

The old fixture should have had a cable connector to grip the feed wire. Since connections are made inside the fixture there is no need for a junction box.

Here's a link to a track light installation page.

Installing A Track Light - Part 1

[TromboneAl]

My track is a little different -- no place for the wire nut connections to reside. It essentially just has some wires that go to a thing that plugs into the track (it has a cover that goes over these wires for looks).

I'll pick up a post-construction box tomorrow. I'll be sure to get the kind where there isn't quite enough space for the wires, so that most of the project time will be spent trying to squeeze things in.

Thanks for the help.

[TromboneAl]

Forgot the picture:
Tracklight.jpg

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep that wants a box. And you need to sweep up a bit and sand that floor down and do some refinishing.

You want one of those blue boxes unclehoneys link shows. I have no idea why all of the post construction boxes are blue...they just are...

[UncleHoney]

I agree with CFB, that one does need a box. Interesting how they have adapted the base of a track light itself to feed power to the track. Saves parts and you can feed the track from any location along the length.

UH

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny My old house had some creative non-use of outlets and boxes. My favorite was the 220v wire coming right out of the wall and screwed into the connections inside the stove. I guess a box, outlet and 220v plug cord was $20 that couldnt be afforded...

Code is code, and being a nuke is expensive. At least three stoves on our street were wired directly to the 220V and I suspect the entire street is done that way. Makes no difference to me-- I don't plan to unplug the stove.

Even code doesn't make sense sometimes. We're tapping into a familyroom 120V circuit (off a 30A breaker) and extending it 50 feet to a storage shed. (Waterproof conduit buried in a trench.) The plug at the house wall is GFCP and the same for the storage shed. With all that grounding, shorting, & overloading protection I'm not sure that I see the need for a separate junction box at the storage shed. But I fear that would probably be code.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I had to unplug it a bunch of times!

When I replaced the over-the stove microwave, it was a lot easier to hoist out the old and in the new without the stove in the way. When I did that I noticed 4 mysterious fist sized holes in the wall I had to patch.

Funny side story on that. I had a 1 cubic foot box of spackle left over from my wifes house repair, so instead of fooling around with drywall tape and whatnot I just grabbed a handful and stuffed it into the holes. My wife on entry to the kitchen inquires "So...is that how the pro's do it?"

Later when I removed and returned the microwave I bought because it sucked, and put in another one.

Once again when I redid the kitchen floor.

Oh yeah, and then there was the time I poured a quart or so of sweet potato soup down the seam between the stove and the counter.

[USK Coastie]

Nords what is the wire size on the 30 amp breaker? Anything smaller that 10/3 w ground would be a hazard. 12 guage can handle 20 amps. It's not the instant melt down that gets you it's the fire 10 years from now in the wall because of the deterioated insulation. Kinda like when you go to replace a ceiling fixture that has 100 watt bulbs in a fixture rated for 60 watt and the insulation crumbles when you take the wires apart.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USK Coastie Nords what is the wire size on the 30 amp breaker? Anything smaller that 10/3 w ground would be a hazard. 12 guage can handle 20 amps.

Thanks for bringing that up. I missed that train of thought and went with more power a bigger breaker more or less out of reflex.

The room I'm tapping from is currently supplied with a 20-amp breaker and typical household 12/3 wiring. That includes one receptacle for the computer stack (less than 200 watts), a second for the TV/VCR stack (peak use 150 watts) and an outdoor GFCP receptacle (yardwork tools). The storage shed (actually an exercise room) will power a couple lamps and a treadmill whose power consumption I haven't measured yet. Add in the (very) occasional vacuum cleaner or carpet steam-cleaner.

But a 20-amp breaker will probably handle the whole thing without long-term insualtion heating or breakdown. Coulda saved myself a few bucks.

The submarine force used to use a calibrated IR scanner to check wiring & circuit breakers for excessive heat. I've always thought it'd be nice to "borrow" one overnight for home use, and it looks like consumer IR imaging equipment is starting to fill that need. I just haven't gotten around to playing with the equipment yet...

[USK Coastie]

Or you could get an IR Thermometer gun for checking the connections etc. You do need another tool right?? We used these at the hospital for checking the tightness of connections in electrical pannels and for the turbochargers on the emergency diesel generators. Cost is about $50 at Johnstone Supply of Graingers.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USK Coastie Or you could get an IR Thermometer gun for checking the connections etc. You do need another tool right?? We used these at the hospital for checking the tightness of connections in electrical pannels and for the turbochargers on the emergency diesel generators. Cost is about $50 at Johnstone Supply of Graingers.

Oh, I think I could find some time in my life to buy an important home-improvement tool like this one!

Especially if it sees through walls...

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I might go ahead and buy another house just to play with my home inspectors thermal imaging camera...

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny I might go ahead and buy another house just to play with my home inspectors thermal imaging camera...

Tell me more about it-- brand name & model?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hmmm...it was a Fluke unit IIRC. He said he got it used for about 8k. A little rich for even me to justify as a home repair tool item...

But pretty cool. You can see any damp parts of the house, where the pipes and wires are, areas of insulation loss, etc.

[USK Coastie]

We bought a new unit for the Hospital about 4 years ago IIRC it was $4000. It produced good images and allowed us to not use a contracted service. I'm sure they have come down farther in price. Try EBAY
The contracted service to do all of the Distribution Centers and MCC on the campus and provide the glosy report was $2500 - $3000. This type of maintenance is STRONGLY encouraged by the Joint Commission on an annual basis.
I had to wonder if they had a business interest in ThermoScan companies??
A small part of your high cost of Healthcare.