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Old 03-20-2012, 02:24 PM   #21
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But is it a 'much, much, much' better film? Based on the reviews and discussions I've read of WKTEC, it's gonna have to be considerably better for me to get anything out of it.
Revenge isn't a great film but it is good and yes much much better film the WKTEC. WKTEC like so many documentaries wasn't really a documentary but an political editorial on film.


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While I was and am fascinated by space technology, I really wonder if looking into the deep oceans isn't every bit as challenging with more potential reward. There is another thread on that subject now that I'll be following.

It seems to be more challenging (only 7 miles away, and we hardly spend any time there?). And it also seems that if we find something useful, it would be easier to take advantage if it. We could set up unmanned transport systems to mine stuff, or whatever is of value down there.



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Cameron is an interesting guy engineer/film director (I don't like him cause he seems like he is very arrogant). I agree that ocean depths is also a challenging new frontier with more practical applications and I'll look forward to the pictures and reading about. However it doesn't capture my imagination the way space does. The difference between space the ocean is pretty simple in my mind. Elon wants humans to be a multi planet species and the boy in me wants to meet all the hot alien chicks like Captain Kirk and giant glowing squids just aren't the same.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:34 PM   #22
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Revenge isn't a great film but it is good and yes much much better film the WKTEC. WKTEC like so many documentaries wasn't really a documentary but a political editorial on film.
I did watch it while prepping dinner, so maybe 3/4 attention. Some aspects of it were interesting. The first 10 minutes almost had me shutting it off, as they repeated the same (counting to 10....), ummm, 'viewing angle' as WKTEC.

It's hard for me to say much w/o going full-bore rant mode, but looking at it glass-half-full mode, there were definitely some interesting things. I was not aware that the CEO of Nissan was a Brazilian-Lebanese-French businessman (wiki description), and he was pretty interesting too. And I got the impression he was not into the Leaf for short-term profit or for 'save the environment' issues, but it seemed he was just trying to hedge his bets - if EVs take off, he wanted the Nissan name to be associated with EVs. If not, whats a few million in R&D to a big corp?

And I do think Elon Musk was brilliant to realize that by the time you got enough batteries together for a 200 mile range, you had enough torque and power for world-class performance. And world-class performance was going for ~ $250,000, so a $40,000 battery pack wasn't an issue in that neighborhood. So they put a $40,000 battery pack in a spin-off of a Lotus Elan, and had a modest hit. I don't think the film really covered that though. And whether that can 'trickle down' to more mid-range priced cars, well, we will see. Also brilliant to get the govt to subsidize the purchase of a rich guys toy. Subsidies to the 1%, yet it's all cool, since it's 'cool'?

OK, a mini-rant (did not want to disappoint ). They seemed to be fine using the 'zero pollution, zero particulates' claim with EVs, with no caveats. But later said that an advantage of EVs is that as the grid becomes cleaner and cleaner, EVs become cleaner and cleaner. Wait a minute, how do you get cleaner than 'zero pollution, zero particulates'? How very convenient. And why wouldn't I be impressed with Danny DiVito's comments, considering he holds an advanced degree in the Environmental Sciences and several decades of experience as an Automotive Engineer (oh wait, he never even played those parts on TV?)?



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The difference between space the ocean is pretty simple in my mind. Elon wants humans to be a multi planet species and the boy in me wants to meet all the hot alien chicks like Captain Kirk and giant glowing squids just aren't the same.
You hold out for your hot alien chicks, I'm going for the sure thing - deap sea mermaids - we've already had actual sightings!



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Old 03-20-2012, 10:52 PM   #23
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The government subsidy bothers me also. But, I guess the same could be said for the mortgage deduction, etc. Not sure. The Volt is not selling that well, if I recall correctly.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:26 PM   #24
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And I do think Elon Musk was brilliant to realize that by the time you got enough batteries together for a 200 mile range, you had enough torque and power for world-class performance. And world-class performance was going for ~ $250,000, so a $40,000 battery pack wasn't an issue in that neighborhood. So they put a $40,000 battery pack in a spin-off of a Lotus Elan, and had a modest hit. I don't think the film really covered that though. And whether that can 'trickle down' to more mid-range priced cars, well, we will see. Also brilliant to get the govt to subsidize the purchase of a rich guys toy. Subsidies to the 1%, yet it's all cool, since it's 'cool'?

O


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My I had forgotten about Daryl and Tom Hanks in early performance. Good taste.

You've got to remember that I live in a isolate spot in the middle of the Pacific surrounded by environmentalist. My sister bleeds green, but to her credit she is at least not hypocrite and practice what she preaches unlike so many Hollywood types. Several year I went to see an even worse movie than WKTEC about some idiot saving the earth by driving around in his mini-van converted to run on kitchen oil waste. I had a hard time not bursting out laughing and you, I think would have suffered a major brain meltdown at the sheer stupidity. It was even a bit much for my sister. But audience loved it and left energized about saving the Planet with Bio-Diesel So by comparison Revenge is like Without the Hot Air compared to An Inconvenient Truth.

Elon doesn't make silly claim about zero emission. It an interview with WSJ last year when pressed he simply said that the S class will produce less CO2/mile even with coal electricity than gasoline do to the higher efficiency of power plant than internal combustion cars. My friend son said that he has seen the calculation and it is true.

But you really have to look at the glass half full here. This is a film celebrating real engineers and real businessman solving real engineering problems. Guys who actually understand math, physics, and finance. It is infinitely better than math challenged politicians and celebrities making absurd claims and doomsday predictions. Small steps to sanity ERD.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:32 PM   #25
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I just viewed the daily show interview with Elon Musk. I will not bother to post the URL. Mr. Musk is quite an accomplished individual but the questions were very disappointing to me. Sort of like asking Einstein how much is 2+2 and then marveling when he answered 'four'.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:05 PM   #26
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Did anybody catch the segment on 60 Minutes on the economic devastation that happened area around the Kennedy Space Center after the end of the shuttle.

I really feel sorry for all of these talented guys and gals, and Elon can't afford to hire all of them. Although with 1800 employees he is making a dent.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:02 AM   #27
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I just viewed the daily show interview with Elon Musk. I will not bother to post the URL. Mr. Musk is quite an accomplished individual but the questions were very disappointing to me. Sort of like asking Einstein how much is 2+2 and then marveling when he answered 'four'.
Funny as he can be, science & technology are not Stewart's forte. It was interesting that he pointed out that only 4 entities had put a space vehicle into orbit and also brought it back to earth under control - USA, USSR, China & Elon Musk/SpaceX.

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Did anybody catch the segment on 60 Minutes on the economic devastation that happened area around the Kennedy Space Center after the end of the shuttle.

I really feel sorry for all of these talented guys and gals, and Elon can't afford to hire all of them. Although with 1800 employees he is making a dent.
It is sad, but predictable. I wonder how many saw the writing on the wall and left with some equity? The people they interviewed seemed to have known well in advance, I guess they just believed Congress would change their minds and fund NASA anyway. But still sad no matter what...
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #28
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Did anybody catch the segment on 60 Minutes on the economic devastation that happened area around the Kennedy Space Center after the end of the shuttle.

I really feel sorry for all of these talented guys and gals, and Elon can't afford to hire all of them. Although with 1800 employees he is making a dent.
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It is sad, but predictable. I wonder how many saw the writing on the wall and left with some equity? The people they interviewed seemed to have known well in advance, I guess they just believed Congress would change their minds and fund NASA anyway. But still sad no matter what...

Yes, they did seem to know... but I think it would have been a bigger impact if they had not had most of the people on that probably have a great pension and can retire....

The thing that was more compelling was the knock on effect... where there were so many other business that went out of business since people were moving...

Just another example of why you should not be in a one company town....
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #29
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See attached link for an article about SpaceX considering Texas location as a new Cape Canaveral. Interesting, especially to those of us from Texas and the NASA community.
SpaceX proposes Texas site for future rocket launches | Fox News
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:00 PM   #30
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Funny as he can be, science & technology are not Stewart's forte. It was interesting that he pointed out that only 4 entities had put a space vehicle into orbit and also brought it back to earth under control - USA, USSR, China & Elon Musk/SpaceX.

.
I rolled my eyes a bit about this since that is exactly how the 60 Minutes piece on Elon started. Considering how Stewart rails on the media for being copy cats... I had to laugh.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:53 PM   #31
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Funny as he can be, science & technology are not Stewart's forte. It was interesting that he pointed out that only 4 entities had put a space vehicle into orbit and also brought it back to earth under control - USA, USSR, China & Elon Musk/SpaceX.
True. I wish he had asked Musk about the rocket engines being built into the Dragon space craft. Unlike the old NASA vehicles, there will be no launch escape tower to jettison while still sitting on top of a burning rocket, so there will be more ability to escape a launch gone wrong. And, apparently, the engines can also be used for a soft landing on land. Nobody is doing that yet to my knowledge.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:31 AM   #32
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For those keeping score on the latest space race. It looks like is Elon Musk 3, North Korea 0. I hope the guy has good security I can just see the crazy North Korean trying to kidnap the guy to run their rocket program.

I was just thinking how mind boggling it would be for a North Korean rocket scientist to find out that one guy and one private company in the US is so far ahead of entire country.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:35 PM   #33
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For those keeping score on the latest space race. It looks like is Elon Musk 3, North Korea 0. I hope the guy has good security I can just see the crazy North Korean trying to kidnap the guy to run their rocket program.

I was just thinking how mind boggling it would be for a North Korean rocket scientist to find out that one guy and one private company in the US is so far ahead of entire country.
I was thinking about this today as well. I came to the conclusion that Elon Musk has a very indirect but huge subsidy in the form of talent pool available to him. The USA having had such a significant space program for the past 50 years makes what Elon is doing possible. If he was in New Zealand it might be a bit harder to get the necessary talent for example.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:09 PM   #34
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Mr. musk has been quite candid about help SpaceX has got from NASA.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:29 PM   #35
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I was thinking about this today as well. I came to the conclusion that Elon Musk has a very indirect but huge subsidy in the form of talent pool available to him. The USA having had such a significant space program for the past 50 years makes what Elon is doing possible. If he was in New Zealand it might be a bit harder to get the necessary talent for example.
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Mr. musk has been quite candid about help SpaceX has got from NASA.
One formula for success is being smart enough to see an opportunity and then being bold enough to act on it.

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Old 04-13-2012, 10:50 PM   #36
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I was thinking about this today as well. I came to the conclusion that Elon Musk has a very indirect but huge subsidy in the form of talent pool available to him. The USA having had such a significant space program for the past 50 years makes what Elon is doing possible. If he was in New Zealand it might be a bit harder to get the necessary talent for example.

You are right and large talent pool and an entrepreneurial culture are big advantages. He is from South Africa but fortunately immigrated to the US via Canada by himself at 17. Interestingly enough the professor that started the Hawaii Angels organization that Nords' and I are member of also is from South Africa also. As a country we are very fortunate that America still attracts these type of people.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:44 PM   #37
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It looks like Mr. Musk and his band of wonderkin have done it again!

SpaceX
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:52 PM   #38
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It looks like Mr. Musk and his band of wonderkin have done it again!

SpaceX
The missions not over but so far so good. I hope all goes well, it is impressive indeed. Elon Musk is remarkable and fascinating IMO...
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #39
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It looks like Mr. Musk and his band of wonderkin have done it again!

SpaceX
Very cool! I'm hoping for a docking! Fingers crossed.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:34 PM   #40
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Met him a few years back at his factory with the Deputy Administrator of NASA. Really neat guy,cofounded Paypal, started a car company and builds rockets on a general Russian design. Uses oil line welders to fabricate the larger stages. Does it cheaper than other US companies and cheaper than the Russians. I loved visiting the plant, I felt that if I were younger I would have bolted NASA and tried to work there, it just 'smelled right', like going around some of the labs at CALTECH only more production oriented. (Not like I was some important guy, I was just in the back of the room with these and other top folks but I could actually see what was going on and its really good.) Have no idea how he will look on TV, I'll have to watch.
Had lunch with some of the SpaceX people when I worked in El Segundo. Interesting stuff they work on.
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