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Old 08-05-2014, 10:24 PM   #21
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This is a five person company, and my friend is a relatively new 'manager' there. I'm trying
to get insight on why they can't just fire him... It's bizarre to me, but I know people here
are in his shoes, trying to get out of the job.. but only if it's the right conditions. No one
has explained to me what the downside to the company is on the unemployment tax is and
why they would need to contest the circumstances of the dismissal.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:34 PM   #22
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I own a small business and have dealt with many employees like this who threaten the manager to fire them. Yes, they want to collect unemployment and/or welfare benefits.

If the employee has worked less than 28 calendar days your friend can terminate his employment immediately without cause. This will not result in an unemployment claim on your friend's business.

If the employee has been on the job over 28 days but hasn't worked too long and is wilfully slacking off, his behaviour needs to be documented and ideally the third write up should result in termination.

However, if the employee is being defiant, bad mouthing the management and/or owners, he/she should be immediately terminated to protect business from the negative influence. You can later fight unemployment claim explaining the circumstances that led to termination. It is best to terminate any employee immediately if his/her conduct is detrimental to business.

BTW, in this day & age every small business owner must purchase an "Employers Practice Liability Insurance" policy to protect the business/owners from a possible lawsuit. Legal fees in defending the lawsuit irrespective of its result can be financially devastating to a small business owner.

Good Luck
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:36 PM   #23
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I can only explain my state...

If the person gets unemployment for the full 26 weeks, that amount of money goes against the company's experience rate... IOW, the state will tax the company at a higher rate until it gets it back...

Still, it is cheaper to fire the guy and lose out on an unemployment decision than to keep him 'working'...


GET RID OF THE GUY....
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpack View Post
This is a five person company, and my friend is a relatively new 'manager' there. I'm trying
to get insight on why they can't just fire him... It's bizarre to me, but I know people here
are in his shoes, trying to get out of the job.. but only if it's the right conditions. No one
has explained to me what the downside to the company is on the unemployment tax is and
why they would need to contest the circumstances of the dismissal.
The company does not "contest the circumstances of the dismissal" and no one has said that. If the terminated employee applies for unemployment compensation, the company may challenge or contest the application by showing that the employee was "terminated for cause" and therefore is not eligible for unemployment compensation benefits. Both the employee and employer may attend a hearing in person or by telephone and give their version of the circumstances. Some employees are excellent at documenting supporting circumstances. "My supervisor was new and unskilled. He lacked training skills and I struggled to learn from him. He often looked at me in a threatening way and I felt intimidated. Etc." Therefore, most companies only contest or challenge (same thing) cases where the "termination for cause" documentation is solid such as in cases of excessive absenteeism where accurate and timely records were kept.

The unemployment tax change for one additional claim would be dependent on the state the company is located in and the company's history of having terminated/layed off/fired employees who collected in the past. As a manager, your friend and the company owner should be very aware of this. If not, they should shut down and board up the place asap. Or hire an HR consultant service to help them. The rules vary significantly from state to state so you're not likely to get specific quantitative information here.

The employee in question CAN be terminated. But the employee can exercise certain employment rights (dependent on state and fed laws) and challenge the termination if he feels it violates some civil right or employment law. For example, if the employee is race A and is replaced by a race B person, he might challenge that he was terminated because of his ethnicity, etc. Therefore, the reasons for termination are always documented to show that the termination was for legal, non-civil rights violating reasons.

Recruitment and hiring of a "good" work force is critical. Even in "employment at will" states, an employee who turns out to be a poor performer or who has personal traits which make him a general pita on the job will successfully collect unemployment benefits if terminated. Generally, successfully challenging a claim requires that the employer show specific violations of documented company policies which commonly lead to termination. Examples: theft of company property, absenteeism, threatening or harming another employee, etc.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:05 PM   #25
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The family-owned company I worked for had a 'real' HR guy who used to tell the employee the company would not fight the employee's claim to unemployment if the employee resigned.

If the employee insisted on continuing his butt-head ways and did not voluntarily resign, the employee was told he would be terminated for cause (which had been documented) and the company would fight vigorously to make sure the employee did not get unemployment benefits.

The strategy seemed to work well. The business was one of the best to work for in the county so there was very little turnover.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:12 PM   #26
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GET RID OF THE GUY....

Yes, if the person does not want to be there, terminate them. (In this context, terminate means just that -- to end employment -- that is also what happens when someone voluntarily resigns, btw.)

It would probably be advantageous for the company to offer some type of incentive to get the person to resign.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I can only explain my state...

If the person gets unemployment for the full 26 weeks, that amount of money goes against the company's experience rate... IOW, the state will tax the company at a higher rate until it gets it back...

Still, it is cheaper to fire the guy and lose out on an unemployment decision than to keep him 'working'...


GET RID OF THE GUY....
+1 I would put together some documentation on his behavior and request to be terminated, including affidavits of of other employees who witnessed the behavior and requests if applicable, and then show him the door and contest any unemployment claim he makes. If you win the contest, then great. I your lose the contest, IMO not a huge deal and the slight increase in unemployment insurance costs is well worth getting rid of the malcontent.
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