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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-25-2006, 07:57 PM   #21
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

Looks like the California AG called it five years ago:
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Here's what California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said at a press conference about Enron Corp. Chairman Kenneth Lay: "I would love to personally escort Lay to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey."'
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 07:33 AM   #22
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

Abu Grahib?* Guantanamo? Dog leash?* Here Kenny boy, here!
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 08:56 AM   #23
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
No beating necessary.* Just send them to a Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Penitentiary.

Meet your new husband cell-mate.
I fear that they'll end up in some Club Fed location that includes an adjacent golf course!
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:10 AM   #24
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by Austin_Explorer
I fear that they'll end up in some Club Fed location that includes an adjacent golf course!* *
I tend to doubt it. In the wake of SOx and all the corporate malfeasance as Enron collapsed, federal sentencing guidelines for white-collar crime have been stiffened. I think these guys are going to the big house, not Club Fed. I also think they will probably die in jail (of old age). Check out what happened to the Rigas' in the Adelphia case.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:18 AM   #25
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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I fear that they'll end up in some Club Fed location that includes an adjacent golf course!
Non violent offenders go to minimum security or a farm unit (can't remember the real name for those). I've been inside quite a few minimum security institutions but other than seeing the farms I don't know what they're like other than what staff tells me. As for the minimum's - no golf, no exercise equipment, etc - in short, it ain't club fed. They did away with all of that some time back.

It's not booty bandit jail either. Sorry to crush everyone's homosexual jail rape visions.

I've been in the booty bandit joints - my favorite had the nickname Thunderdome (two men enter, one man leaves!) - and there is no comparison to the fed on that aspect. In other words, the lights out at night punishment aspect will be missing for Ken, Jeff and the like.

The farms offer a little nicer experience, but the minimums are most definitely prisons. Even after spending a just a few hours in them as a visitor I was happy as hell getting buzzed through the door on the way out. I always said that one hour spent there was 59 minutes and 59 seconds more than I ever wanted to do.

The real punishment, beside just being not free, is the fact that if they get hit with a big piece of the maximum time their crimes make them eligible for, they will most likely die there. Once you're in the fed system you find they are very different than the states are about handing out time off for good behavior. You get some time off for that and a little more if you take rehabilitation programs (drug/alcohol abuse, anger management, etc.) but it's a small percentage of the time you owe.

I just remembered, there are some with nearby golf courses (usually where prisons and military bases coincide on the same piece of land) and one of the work details the BOP had was to cut grass and do some of the landscaping at the base golf course.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:32 AM   #26
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

So while it gives me substantial satisfaction to see these two crooks get their just dessert, what ever happend to the other crooks on the other side of the table -- the slimy Wall Street investment bankers? Anybody know?

From the article below, it looks like the goverment slapped these investment banking firms on the wrist and said "don't behave like that again". Seems rather lame to me, I think these guys should be behind bars as well so they could play bridge with Lay and Skilling

http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunea...031013_01.html
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:32 AM   #27
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by Leonidas
I've been in the booty bandit joints - my favorite had the nickname Thunderdome (two men enter, one man leaves!)
So did you leave as the man, nor not? *
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:48 AM   #28
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by Papi

it looks like the goverment slapped these investment banking firms on the wrist and said "don't behave like that again".* Seems rather lame to me
My total agreement Papi.* My feeling is that the government decided it would have been difficult to get a conviction against any particular individuals from the banking firms, even though they are guilty as well.* Their activities were more subtle than Lay or Skilling and it would have been harder to convince the jury they directly harmed people.* So, rather than take the risk of putting them on trial and then having a jury exonerate them, they just didn't prosecute.* Too bad.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:58 AM   #29
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
So did you leave as the man, nor not?
I'm still a virgin in that respect. The closest I ever came was a few years ago when I went to the St. Martin Parish Prison in Eastern LA. The next week some Cubans being held as INS detainees grabbed the warden and two guards and held them hostage for several days. The scariest thing about that situation is the general/universal rule that most prisons and jails have no hostage policy. Which means if we can get the hostages out safely through negotiation it's all good, but if the bad guys have a shiv to your throat and are escaping with you as a shield - well, we sure are sorry that we had to shoot through you to stop the bad guy from getting away.

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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:00 AM   #30
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

So, has anybody seen any indication that these or similar verdicts are having any effect?

Certainly doesn't seem like anybody at Fanny Mae got the message, for example. * Execs and boards are still in cahoots on every public company I'm aware of. * And stockholders don't seem particularly concerned.

I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:09 AM   #31
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by wab
So, has anybody seen any indication that these or similar verdicts are having any effect?

Certainly doesn't seem like anybody at Fanny Mae got the message, for example. * Execs and boards are still in cahoots on every public company I'm aware of. * And stockholders don't seem particularly concerned.

I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.
Everyone thinks their situation is different. They feel they have their tracks covered so that nothing will ever be discovered. Just the nature and mentality of the greedy corporate minds.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:12 AM   #32
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by wab
I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.
I think the Lay/Skilling convictions will raise their level of awareness. Before that I had not paid too much attention to the number of prosecutions, but in my morning paper they ran down the list of former Enron execs who are all serving time. There are a lot of them.

For a real crook it would be small change stuff - 5 years for a many of them - but for a $5,000 suit-wearing, $5 a cup latte-sipping, Porsche-driving corporate thief rat to spend five years in the can as well as forfeiting millions of bucks of their ill-gotten gains - that's justice. It's also got to put at least a modicum of good old fashioned "Fear of God" in the hearts of some who might think about doing wrong.

Yesterday I heard that the Corporate Fraud Task Force that Bush put together as a result of Enron has won more than 90 convictions so far and there are a ton of indictees awaiting trial.

Thievery and criminality have been around since humanity took it's first steps and it will always be here. But, most people are afraid of getting caught and being punished. This enforcement action will encourage more of them to keep on the right side of the law once they realize that the G is serious about spanking corporate crooks.

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Originally Posted by DOG51
Everyone thinks their situation is different. They feel they have their tracks covered so that nothing will ever be discovered. Just the nature and mentality of the greedy corporate minds.
Most criminals do their crimes because they think they can get away with it. They're usually wrong because they don't apply logic or they're sociopaths. Except for the severe cases they are capable of fear and if they are convinced that the odds are good that they will be caught (and/or the potential punishment is scary) a lot of them will at least reduce their criminal behavior if not just foregoing it all.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:31 AM   #33
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

I'm so glad that these two are found guilty.* I'm not sure I'm happy with the punishment.* Whatever the punishment might be, it would never fit the crime committed.* I can't help thinking about the people who got wiped out financially by these crooks.

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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:39 AM   #34
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by Leonidas
I think the Lay/Skilling convictions will raise their level of awareness.
For a while. These asshats think they're smarter than everyone else and wont get caught. Lay is still beside himself about the conviction and is quite certain he did nothing wrong and that the conviction will be overturned.

What you'll see is more effort made to create buffers and isolations to produce better "I didnt know/I wasnt involved" arguments in court, rather than actual good behavior.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 05:44 PM   #35
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

I just finished reading THe Smartest Guys in the Room and is it just me or did Andy Fastow get off WAY to easy? He got 10 years in prison and paid 20 million in fines. If what the book reports as his true earnings from those off-balance sheet entities he still has 40 million in the bag. So in exchange for ten years of his life he gets to keep millions? To add insult to injury the jury even said Fastow didn't add much to the government's case. Amazing
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 06:21 PM   #36
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

The guy who starts talking first gets the best deal...
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 07:40 PM   #37
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

What I noticed was the FL home construction programs of several Enron execs.* If memory serves me correctly, a home in FL is protected in bankruptcy without regard to value.* I think those folks thought they were subject to civil claims, not criminal.*

What I want to know is how much $$$ the convicted get to keep.* As much as I feel for their families there is no reason why they should be protected more than othe former employees or investors.
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 09:09 PM   #38
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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Originally Posted by Arif
I just finished reading THe Smartest Guys in the Room and is it just me or did Andy Fastow get off WAY to easy? He got 10 years in prison and paid 20 million in fines. If what the book reports as his true earnings from those off-balance sheet entities he still has 40 million in the bag. So in exchange for ten years of his life he gets to keep millions? To add insult to injury the jury even said Fastow didn't add much to the government's case. Amazing
How soon we forget Boesky & Milliken?

We'll have to ask those guys if they feel that they made a good deal. It's amazing that more people aren't signing up to spend a few years in prison for a few million $$!
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:05 PM   #39
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

Prison....3 hots and a cott...cable tv...room service...scheduled weight training...basketball...free rent...free computer courses...free clothing...playing games...occasional BJ's...40 million $$....mmmm, sounds like a pretty good way to kinda ease into ER!!!
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict
Old 05-26-2006, 10:31 PM   #40
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Re: Enron Trial Verdict

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How soon we forget Boesky & Milliken?

We'll have to ask those guys if they feel that they made a good deal. It's amazing that more people aren't signing up to spend a few years in prison for a few million $$!
Actually Highly Confident was the first book I read about corp greed and corruption starring Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky. If I recall correctly the book actually slanted the indictment and conviction as a witch hunt.
BTW- What is Milken up to now? Last time I heard he was trying to cure prostate cancer and founding Leap Frog.
I am sure he still has his millions as well. I recall him making over 500 million over two years doing junk bond deals. That will definately buy you a lot of enemies, rightly or wrongly.
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