ER article: "American Fairy Tale"

[Richer and Poorer]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Okay, got the message. Just you simple folks on-line. Know of any Forums that 'cater' to the rich and retired? Need to relate to like minded as I'm getting bashed around here. I agree with the other note.....everyone is jealous!

 

[dex]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

TH,
THere was an article recently in the Economist stating that there were aproximatly 4.9m people in the world with a net worth of $1m or more excluding their homes.
About 2.4m of these people lived in the USA.

I feel as this number is low. I came from a poor background and I know the families of my brother, sisters, a childhood friend and myself have a net worth - excluding homes of more than $1m.

Several of the people who post here are clsoe to or over $1m.

All that aside it does put things into perspective that we do have the opportunity to enjoy life and we are privildged.

 

[Nords]

OK, R&P, on the off chance that you're serious...

... http://www.worth.com

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Okay, got the message. Just you simple folks on-line. Know of any Forums that 'cater' to the rich and retired? Need to relate to like minded as I'm getting bashed around here. I agree with the other note.....everyone is jealous!

Oh gosh I hope you're not feeling bashed. I have some fond memories of being among the rich and famous.

I'm willing to do an experiment with you. Send me 75% of your assets and follow that up with 75% of your paycheck going forward. I'll resume my prior consumptive lifestyle and after 3 years I'll provide a full and detailed report on which felt better...working, making a million and spending it...not working, living a modest lifestyle...and not working and living like a rock star.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I came from a poor background and I know the families of my brother, sisters, a childhood friend and myself have a net worth - excluding homes of more than $1m.

I wonder what the dynamics are of wealth within families? Some of the more interesting stuff I found in "the millionaire next door" was the demographic studies that found russian immigrants more likely to start businesses, scots to save more, and the fact that these two (and other groups) managed to imprint their values on as many as 3 succeeding generations. There was also some cause and effect regarding children of poor parents and children of rich parents.

In short, I wonder if you and your siblings got a "hard working" aptitude passed to you and took advantage of opportunities, or being pressed by your parents to "have it better"?

Theres a definite imprint in my family. I can think of two uncles and one aunt, along with my dad, who all retired early. All on the basis of working their butts off in mostly blue collar jobs and saving their money. In our old home town where we all grew up and largely lived within 10 miles of each other, I remember talking to a guy who owned the big local furniture store about a job when I was a teenager. His comment "You're from that family? Heck, I'll hire you right now, you folks work like TWO people!".

 

[Bob_Smith]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Just curious - many here who retired early report earning very large salaries, owning companies, working their tails off, etc. Did anyone just work for average wages, in a regular 40 hour per week job, raise a family, and still manage to save enough to retire early?

 

[Richer and Poorer]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

To Nords and Cut Throat
Thanks for the worth website, unfortunately, no message forums within it. As for globalrichlist.com, don't trust the numbers given that they just want to make you feel rich so that you give them some money. Let's be real here.

And finally, I did not work all those years to end up living the middle life in my ER. Is this the reward? The definition of R is hopefully living better than before, in more ways than one. This also applies to holiday vacations. Always couldn't understand why people vacation in places where the standard is less than how they live at home. This is what people call their break?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think I *am* living far better than before. But that depends on what you define "better" as, and why.

I guess if stuff + stress - time = "better", then its not.

The most fun I have is when someone I used to work with forwards me an email that would have made me go ballistic 5 years ago.

Usually some stuffed head exclaiming with great puffery that they'll be taking over something that didnt belong to them, criticizing something they would have done worse, or blaming something or someone else for their own failings. I used to jump up, nostrils flaring, and stampede to their office to growl and bite, blood pressure soaring.

These make me laugh heartily now. So silly.


Check this out
http://early-retirement.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=young;action=display;num=1079001928;start=

 

[Richer and Poorer]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Thanks sooo much for the link! I agree with the New Luxuries whole heartedly. I do very much appreciate the "little" things in life, but it's also good to have the "bigger" things too. What's wrong with having it all?.....Furthermore, if you can accomplish all you want with hardly any stress, all the more better!

Don't we all appreciate things when we don't have them EVERYDAY. In other words for the ER, doesn't it eventually get boring? You have to mix it up abit. If it's sunny and warm EVERYDAY, you really don't appreciate it and take it for granted. Whereas those that live where there are four seasons, you certainly appreciate the sunny and warm season when it comes.

 

[Richer and Poorer]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Cut Throat....you're name is sooooo appropriate...don't need any advice at all, just wanted to chat with some ERs....didn't think I'd run into some jealous and envious folks. This is no fun at all....outa here.

 

[haha]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

 If it's sunny and warm EVERYDAY, you really don't appreciate it and take it for granted.  Whereas those that live where there are four seasons, you certainly appreciate the sunny and warm season when it comes.  

That is what my Dad always told me. Then I moved to Venice Beach, and found out that he lied.

Mikey

 

[Bob_Smith]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

...I did not work all those years to end up living the middle life in my ER.  Is this the reward?

Yes, it is an incredible reward. If you don't get it, hang around and maybe you'll learn something.

Okay, got the message. Just you simple folks on-line. Know of any Forums that 'cater' to the rich and retired? Need to relate to like minded as I'm getting bashed around here. I agree with the other note.....everyone is jealous!

Based upon the content of your limited posts, I suspect that many of the "simple folks" who frequent this forum could eat you for lunch on their worst days.

...didn't think I'd run into some jealous and envious folks. This is no fun at all....outa here.

I can almost assure you that nobody here is envious of you, or anyone else. You have completely misread the people who frequent this forum. You have a great deal to learn; about people and about life.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Bob -thanks for saying what I was thinking.

Had the expectant missus not popped out of bed an hour ago demanding a lumberjacks breakfast, I'd be hungry enough

Too much work to consider further.

Mikey - after 11 years in california on the heels of 32 in new england...you're right, your dad is a big fat liar... Every time I went out and got in my convertible and muttered "another perfect day in paradise" I chuckled indulgently...

 

[John Galt]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

I would trade a COLAed pension for $1,000,000
in a heartbeat. See, it all depends on how long you expect to be around. I would opt for the bird in the hand. A million bucks would last me a long long time.

John Galt

 

[Bob_Smith]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Bob, I'm not sure any of us would actually be willing to ER in the "middle", at least NOT the median of the billions of people on earth.

I agree GDER. I assumed he was talking about settling for the US middle class lifestyle vs. working until he was able to afford the good life. Nevertheless, the guy came off as quite the prima donna. He didn't strike me as the heavyweight he claimed to be; quite the contrary, in fact.

 

[John Galt]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

I expect I would still be "livin' large" if I was
sitting on a big pile of money. I enjoyed those days.
When what was required to support the lifestyle
became a chore, my ER compass swung
180 degrees pretty fast. I wouldn't call it an
epiphany but it was close.

John Galt

 

[Q_T]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Just curious - many here who retired early report earning very large salaries, owning companies, working their tails off, etc. Did anyone just work for average wages, in a regular 40 hour per week job, raise a family, and still manage to save enough to retire early?

In response to Bob Smith's question, here's our story:

Just got my SS lifetime earnings statement, and it shows my annual income over the past 20 years in my regular 40hr/week engineering jobs. 1984: started at $25K (first engineering job after college), inching up to $35K after a few years, then $45K after a few more years, then $55K for a few more years, and finally $60K for the last few years. Pretty much the same earnings for my wife (thankfully NOT an engineer!).

We have no kids by choice, our modest house was purchased for $85K about 13 years ago (now paid off and worth ~$350K due to gangbuster housing market). No other special income or windfalls. We now sit on a portfolio worth ~$800K (not including house or other material assets).


CFCF

 

[Q_T]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

FWIW, here's our "secrets" to getting ahead and hopefully being ER soon:

-No kids (it wasn't a financial decision at all, but certainly helped out with our finances!)
-Be frugal with purchases (not necessarily "cheap" - big difference!).
-Minimize expenses, especially recurring ones. (we haven't been very good at this - our annual expenses have been between $35K and $42K since we got married in 1980 - with $42K being more recently. We don't buy a lot of "stuff", but the daily costs of living and prorated costs (taxes, heat, power, insurance, etc) just keep rolling in. We'd love to see the expense ledgers of couples who live on $24K/year - how do you do it so inexpensively?!)
-Save as much as possible before receiving the paychecks (401K, etc.).
-Make additional automatic deposits of a good chunk of post-tax money into the portfolio. (Besides 401Ks, this has been one of our biggest ways to save. Just pay ourselves first and we never miss it).
-Invest everything saved in a well-distributed fashion.
-Between qualified and non-qualified money, we've managed to squirrel away between $25K-$45K/year over the past 14 years.
-Be thoughtful of purchases. i.e., be mindful of how much life energy it takes to make xx money to buy something worth yy. (We read Your Money Or Your Life about 10-12 years ago, and it got us onto this manner of thinking - and it's helped us a lot. Also we still keep a hand-written graph/chart of our income, expense, and portfolio values. It's really neat to see the 3 lines clearly showing us living below our means for the past 12 years. It's not a budget, but if we were to get off track it would clearly show up and make us figure out what happened. Thoughtful purchases just becomes a habit or second-nature.)
-Be aware and concerned about maintenance costs of owning things, especially when they have motors and/or they require never-ending "consumables".
-Keep eyes on the ball ("the ball" in our case was to pile up the money steadily and heavily and then let it do the work for us as we enjoy ER!!)

BTW, the pundit's statements about needing 70%-100% of income for retirement is clearly not appropriate for us. It would be more like 30%-40% maybe, at our current incomes.

CFCF

 

[John Galt]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Good post CFCF! I have posted our "budget" before,
and so for brevity (and for any like Steve who tire of my
pontificating) I won't relist here. We can get along just fine on $24,000, which is about 25% of my peak earning years. I went back over the checkbook (again) and that
is the number. Plus, I still say we could make the $50.00
per day (for a couple) with a little creativity.

John Galt

 

[dm]

Re: ER article:  "American Fairy Tale"

Well here is my dads story.

He joined the marines at 17 and got his GED there. Got out after a few years and ended up a electrician at the steel mills in Chicago in the mid 60's. Got sick from something at the mill, everytime he went to work he would break out in welps. The doctors though mercury poisen but wern't sure. So he couldn't work there anymore and never though about any compensation from the mill.

We moved to the midwest in the late 60's and he started building houses on his own. Used all of his savings and we were living in a two bedroom rent house at this time. There were four of us.

He did well but never made what some would call big money. Built about 5-10 houses a year.

We lived well, my sister and I both attended college with help from my dad. My mother did not work outside the home. We had new cars and a nice 1900 sf ranch house in a nice subdivision.

The big thing is dad would not buy anything on credit and always lived below his means before it was popular.
I dought if he has a credit card to this day.

My mother passed away at 55, twenty years ago. Dad quit working at this time. He was 56. You never know when something like this is going to happen.

His only investments were CD's and rental properties. He golfs dailey at a local club and in the winter goes to florida to fish. This is his dream retirement. He is 68 now and said he should have quit sooner. He says he didn't retire, he quit.

Just a data point that normal people can do it.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

You also find a lot of these "Don't You Dare Retire Early" articles in the Wall Street Journal, a good financial paper, but one whose conservative slant I find increasing tiresome.

The same theme comes in several guises. One is usually stories that are thinly disguised envy toward the Europeans' definition of work, life, and retirement -- about how wonderful but unsustainable the European systems are and about how the rest of the world better become more American. (Or else what? They'd have a non-functional Social Security System?) The second disguise is usually homilies concerning 401(k) plans. They usually trot out the stat that the "average" 401(k) plan has only 50K in it. That's just total B.S. The average 401(k) may simply be the latest plan that a worker has joined after having worked at 5 or 6 different companies. Anyone with two brain cells will want to roll over any old 401(k) plan into an IRA, unless your old 401(k) allows you to buy 1986 Microsoft shares.

I guess the investment industry mis-calculated. After they have scared us shitless by telling us that we need to save 45% of our gross income, they have created a bunch of people who are able to retire early, and they are running out of willing slaves, so they have their mouthpieces tell us that retiring early is nothing but a fantasy.

I say, what the heck, my company eventually will outsource my job to China anyways, so why can't I pack my own parachute during my off hours? I know my CEO had his packed before he even took his current job.