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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 04:42 AM   #121
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Re: ER religious preference

In that case - Jesus giving up his steady job as a carpenter to be a 'fisher of men' wouldn't fit the bill??
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 04:53 AM   #122
 
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Re: ER religious preference

And what about Mary and Martha? Jesus tells Martha, who is bustling about doing good deeds, that Mary, who has "retired" to listen, has chosen the better part.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 05:01 AM   #123
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Re: ER religious preference

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In that case - Jesus giving up his steady job as a carpenter to be a 'fisher of men' wouldn't fit the bill??
That's the voluntary work i spoke of. *Traded one job for another. *Why is this hard?

You ever gone door to door? Forced to make a choice, i'd keep doing my job i have now long before i'd subject myself to the ridicule of others trying to "save" them in the process of being "fishers of men".
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 05:05 AM   #124
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Re: ER religious preference

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And what about Mary and Martha? Jesus tells Martha, who is bustling about doing good deeds, that Mary, who has "retired" to listen, has chosen the better part.
Your quotations explained that completey. *As you know, retired as we understand it was not the intent of the word in that verse. *Hence your use of quotations.

Also (you baited me), both of them are women. *It was Adam that was cursed to toil the field. * Eve's curse differed did it not? *The hardcore southern baptists i'm around here in Arkansas dont think women should be working at all; thinking of the man as the head of the household and provider of substanence for the family. *Guess I should have clarified i'm specifically referring to men, at least from the vantagepoint of what the bible expects for those of you that care.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 07:29 AM   #125
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Re: ER religious preference

An interesting point to ponder. As stated above, I'm Christian, and I will admit my ER plans probably would look like trading one job for another (become full time Dad to still underage children, later full time grandad, small financial planning/tax preperation business, volunteer work with the Church-not door to door, more like habitat for humanity) and a lot of traveling. But I don't think there is anything wrong with spending your golden years in Margaritaville if you so desire, maybe I'm a heritic for that opinion!
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 07:54 AM   #126
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Re: ER religious preference

Azanon,
The quotes were to differentiate a certain type of retirement, distinguishing it from the activity of Martha. Retirement could also be leaving the group or even going to sleep.
Don't know too much about hardcore Southern Baptists. BUT am inclined to get cranky about calling what women do who are not employed "not working" (pesky defining quotes again). Raising children, home maintenence, care of the elderly, etc.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 08:18 AM   #127
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Re: ER religious preference

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But I don't think there is anything wrong with spending your golden years in Margaritaville if you so desire, maybe I'm a heritic for that opinion!
Neither do I. But I think that belief is inconsistent with christainity.

Azanon,
Quote:
The quotes were to differentiate a certain type of retirement, distinguishing it from the activity of Martha. Retirement could also be leaving the group or even going to sleep.
I'm not sure exactly what kind of retirement was meant. I'm only for sure what it didn't mean; the type of retirement that's the subject of this forum.

Quote:
Don't know too much about hardcore Southern Baptists. BUT am inclined to get cranky about calling what women do who are not employed "not working" (pesky defining quotes again). Raising children, home maintenence, care of the elderly, etc.
So why even bother with this forum? If everything can be argued to be work, then what are we doing here. Yes, techinicallly speaking, even lifting your arm is work. Certainly, doing parental duities can be argued to be work.

Again, i'm only speaking generally so lets get back to generalities. My perception of the bible is that the idea of going from "work" (speaking generally) to just "not pulling your weight" in some way in this world, is unbiblical.

Again, i'm no christain, so I dont have to struggle with this, but IMHO christains highly focused on retirement just for the sake of sleeping in late, playing golf, et al might need to reevaluate their spirituality.

"Work", for a christain, is a way of life. A christain's job ends the day he dies, that much is clear from the bible.


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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 10:31 AM   #128
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Re: ER religious preference

eh, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Az, as Christians we have a duty, but that doesn't mean we have to have a 9 to 5er till we drop. The Bible talks about being good stewards of the land, being good to your neighbor, honoring thy mother and father, etc. There is no commandment on working until you die. The golden rule is do unto others....and Jesus said if you don't remember anything else, remember to love one another. So, yeah there are duties, but a regular job is not one of them. Now the rub comes with, "easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man get to heaven". The Bible is really talking about a fixation on material things, reward in this life, gluttony etc. I think ERing and LBYM is actually more Godly, since you aren't being a mega consumer worrying about appearance, driving a Hummer etc.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 12:08 PM   #129
 
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Re: ER religious preference

In regard to Mary's retirement:
It certainly can be the type of retirement concerned with here. She wasn't employed wass she?

As far as everything being regarded as work, that's partly my point. There have been times when having employment was a piece of cake for me. The forum is about retirement from a job, mostly. Other than that, work is in the eye of the beholder. Jesus remarked approvingly on the lilies that weren't toiling or spinning. I do believe you have OD'd on Protestant work ethic.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 12:19 PM   #130
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Re: ER religious preference

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I do believe you have OD'd on Protestant work ethic.
Contrare. You're the one bound by the shackles of your religion.

I do exactly as I please.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 12:22 PM   #131
 
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Re: ER religious preference

So am I.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 12:27 PM   #132
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Re: ER religious preference

Laurence, my reference was to Adam's curse to "work and toil the field" until he died, admittingly paraphrasing that. *God was saying that's the way its going to be. *So he doesnt want us building towers to heaven any more than he wants us to not "work and toil the field".

Maybe i'm recalling Genesis 3 or thereabouts wrong, but i'm pretty sure that's what it said.

Again, not my problem though.

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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 12:58 PM   #133
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Re: ER religious preference

Az,

Again, I can't speak to those who take the Bible in a strictly literal/fundamentalist bent, but those of us who read it as "Truth", not the literal truth understand that to be a reference to our self awareness, and transition from hunter/gatherer to agrarian, but I don't want to get into a debate with fundamentalists on this board! The thing is, the Bible is a time line, and there were a lot of things God's chosen people had to do before the coming of Christ that they/we don't have to do any more (like avoid shellfish and pork). Jesus was the perfect sacrifice on the cross, the price has been paid for Adam's sin. One has only to accept him.....

There are branches of Christianity that feel different, my 7th day Adventist friend still follows all the Old Testament rules, for example. But I think what you are getting at is you feel it's foolish to believe in something you can't physically touch or see. I totally respect your position, as it was mine for a part of my life, too. Obviously, I am willing to chat about my faith with anyone, but just as obviously, this isn't the forum for it, and I apoloogize if I've offended/annoyed anyone of a different faith or no faith at all.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 01:27 PM   #134
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Re: ER religious preference

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That gets back to why i started this thread. For various reasons, one i mentioned initially, and one you just mentioned, I would think that a "hardcore" christain would not be driven to retirement.

I know christainity cause i was one for 20 years, and from that viewpoint I am pretty confident to "retire" for the sole purpose of not having to work anymore would not glorify God. God either stated directly or implied several times in the bible he does not look favorably on laziness or slothfulness. At best, you could only trade one job for another (such as for voluntarily work to glorify him). Either way, we're supposed to work and toil the earth until we die (see Genesis), or at least that's what Jehovah of the OT says.


Dont think so. Its "Do Good Works" not "Do Work Good (or until you die).

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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 02:16 PM   #135
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Re: ER religious preference

I think all religions are a kind of mental disease inflicted upon young children when they have not yet developed a defence.

The religious contamination is slowly being eradicated in Canada, Europe and Asia as the masses rebel against the force fed nonsense that "my god is the greatest".

Only in America, and the Middle East are the fundamentalists still infecting the young.

Think about it.

The world would be a much safer place without the rabid religious wingnuts all trying to outdo each other.

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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 02:59 PM   #136
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Re: ER religious preference

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I think all religions are a kind of mental disease inflicted upon young children when they have not yet developed a defence.

The religious contamination is slowly being eradicated in Canada, Europe and Asia as the masses rebel against the force fed nonsense that "my god is the greatest".

Only in America, and the Middle East are the fundamentalists still infecting the young.

Think about it.

The world would be a much safer place without the rabid religious wingnuts all trying to outdo each other.
Amen brother.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 04:33 PM   #137
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Re: ER religious preference

Zipper, I'm sensing some negative energy eminating from your post.

Religeous intolerance is bad, but you can't overcome intolerance with more intolerance.....
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 06:01 PM   #138
 
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Re: ER religious preference

I can't condemn what zipper is saying I used to think the same way.
Science was my god for most of my life as an engineer. It seemed like the best source of truth in the world.
But I got tired of wondering why so many people had this unshakeable
faith. I had to find out for myself first hand. So I read the account in the new testament of the 4 eyewitnesses to Jesus and his life. (the gospels) Ended up reading the
entire new testament and came to the point where I decided this was how I wanted to live my life. THEN God became very real to me and changed my life.
Faith must come first.

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 06:29 PM   #139
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Re: ER religious preference

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Either way, we're supposed to work and toil the earth until we die (see Genesis)
The ground was cursed because of Adam's sin, but Christ came to set us free.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:13 KJV

A Christian's only duty is to obey Lord Jesus. *We have only one Lord, one Master. *This is His command:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. *John 13:34 KJV

We work to provide for our families, because we love them. *We do not work because we have been cursed.
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Re: ER religious preference
Old 03-08-2005, 06:49 PM   #140
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Re: ER religious preference

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christains highly focused on retirement just for the sake of sleeping in late, playing golf, et al might need to reevaluate their spirituality.
I agree.

Financial independence is a worthy goal, as the Bible commands us:

Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
1 Corinthians 7:21KJV

IOW, do not voluntarily be a servant to other men. We have but one Lord, one Master. Our goal is not to be free from servitude to men solely to play golf, but rather to devote full time to our Lord's service.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15 KJV
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