Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-23-2014, 07:31 PM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
keegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
Does anyone have personal knowledge of anyone with an engine of any kind that has been ruined by a gasoline containing ethanol...?

My 1998 Lincoln and 96 Cadillac require Premium, but neither have ever never tasted it. @ 120K miles, no service of any plugs, transmission, or any part of the power train... Still get 21 to 29 mpg on Regular w/ ethanol.

All mowers, blowers, saws, trimmers, boat motors, generators etc, work well, despite not using additives or special treatment. Gas from Last summer worked perfectly well ... one pull on mower... after the worst winter... (stored outside) in history. I don't even empty the tanks. The only care any of these products ever receive is a power wash at the end of the season. Some of these engines are 60+ years old.

God will get me for bragging about this, but all these things work perfectly.
Worst thing that happened this year was that the primer bulb on my gas trimmer cracked due to old age... 21 years old.
I can't say for sure but I left gas in my "not so old" rototiller over the winter a few years ago and couldn't get it started in the spring. I rebuilt the carburetor and found some small o rings had become brittle and disintegrated when I removed them. I have many small 2 and 4 cycle gas powered tools none of which have given me trouble since the switch to E10.
__________________

__________________
keegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-23-2014, 07:48 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
JakeBrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 548
Non-ethanol gas in 87, 89, and 93 octane is fairly common around here sold by independent dealers. The big companies like Exxon, Chevron, Texaco, etc don't have it.

I use 93 octane non-ethanol gas in my lawn mowers, tillers, chainsaws, string trimmers, and blowers.

I use 87 octane 10% ethanol gas in my vehicles.

For my tractors I use low sulpher on road diesel, which is usually sold at the same pump station as gas. This is more convenient for me than the off-road diesel pumps. Around here on road diesel costs about $.30 more per gallon than off road diesel.
__________________

__________________
Matthew 6:34 (KJV)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
JakeBrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 08:47 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Okay, here's another source of info on places selling ethanol-free fuel. The map shows places that reportedly have it.

Pure-gas.org map

Notes:
soupxcan: It looks like there are a few places reported near Dallas.
All: It looks like the info is "user reported", so there's a good chance some of it is inaccurate, out of date, etc. Most of the stations I looked at listed a phone number, so I'd definitely call before driving anywhere.

If anyone is interested in testing fuel to see if it contains ethanol, the Experimental Aviation Association (EAA) sells a test kit for this purpose. There have been reported instances of the fuels being different than claimed by the retailer.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 09:30 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
MOGAS from the airport has no lead. It will be used by pilots flying airplanes with Rotax engines and some others that do not need/want lead.

The more common piston-engine fuel at the airport is AVGAS or "100LL". It has lead and should probably be avoided in a lawn mower.
Yeah, that's my mistake..should have elaborated. It's difficult to find mogas at airports. Avgas does have lead...

Sent From My Motorola Startac. Please excuse grammatical errors.
__________________
Founder and Head Lounger @ The Life of Leisure Institute
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40.
ExFlyBoy5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 09:38 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
Does anyone have personal knowledge of anyone with an engine of any kind that has been ruined by a gasoline containing ethanol...?

My 1998 Lincoln and 96 Cadillac require Premium, but neither have ever never tasted it. @ 120K miles, no service of any plugs, transmission, or any part of the power train... Still get 21 to 29 mpg on Regular w/ ethanol.

All mowers, blowers, saws, trimmers, boat motors, generators etc, work well, despite not using additives or special treatment. ... .
Premium is specified for some cars with higher compression ratios to keep the engine from 'knocking' (pre-ignition) - but knocking generally only occurs under hard acceleration or hill climbing. So if you rarely drive hard, you can probably get by w/o premium. But serious knocking can do a lot of damage.

I also have had no fuel problems in my mowers with the ethanol gas we have here in corn country. I generally try to start them a few times over the winter though, to exercise them and charge the battery as well. I'm somewhat skeptical of people who claim ethanol is so bad for small engines (though I'm against it for other reasons), but maybe I've just been lucky... for 30 years?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 10:04 PM   #26
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Yonder
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
My 1998 Lincoln and 96 Cadillac require Premium, but neither have ever never tasted it. @ 120K miles, no service of any plugs, transmission, or any part of the power train... Still get 21 to 29 mpg on Regular w/ ethanol.
Newer cars (since around '96) have knock sensors, that retard the ignition if lower octane gas is used. This may reduce gas mileage, and because of this many claim you don't save money if you use regular in an engine that requires premium. It does, however, reduce the engine's power.
__________________
tfudtuckerpucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 10:26 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
38Chevy454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,584
I will say that the E10 does cause problems in my small 2 stroke engines. Mostly from sitting over winter, or not enough use. I used to get the rebuild kits for $8-10 and clean the carbs, now I just get a whole new carb for $12-18 on ebay. Takes about 5 minutes to change out the carb and back to good working condition. The small carbs do not seem to have the corrosion resistance and with the extremely small passages it does not take much to not run good.

My mower, tiller, generator and other 5-8 hp range small engines do fine on E10. As stated, I just run them dry before winter.
__________________
After Monday & Tuesday even the calendar says, W-T-F...

Semi-Retired 7/1/16: working part-time (60%) for now [4/24/16 changed to 80%]
Retired Aug 2, 2017; age 53
38Chevy454 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2014, 10:43 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,417
Yes my 2007 Acura 'needs' Premium fuel but have had no trouble putting 160K on it with only regular fuel. The problem with ethanol in small engines, as far as I understand, is more about laziness at the end of the season. In these parts, with only 6 months of use for most gas powered equipment, it is failing to drain the gas and carburetor at the end of the season that leads to problems. Ethanol is hygroscopic and the water causes subsequent problems. Theoretically, one could run E10 gas all season and then at the end of the season start running gas without ethanol or as mentioned, just run them dry.
__________________
6miths is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 06:37 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Most modern cars that also have high compression engines run best on premium fuel. But, they have electronic knock sensors that can detect detonation before a person can even hear it, and they automatically retard the timing so that the car can run and the engine won't be destroyed on fuel of lower octane. The engine won't produce as many HP and the mileage will be poorer, but the car will run. If a new car or truck buyer plans to run a higher-performance engine strictly on regular-grade fuel, they may want to save some bucks by buying the vehicle with one of the lower-performance engine options for it (designed to run on regular fuel), because the fuel choice will be limiting the HP anyway.

All properly-tuned automobiles operating with a mix of ethanol and gasoline will get poorer mileage than the same car run on 100% gasoline. Ethanol just has less energy per gallon than does gasoline, so it takes more of it to push the car the same distance. Same for a mix of gasoline and ethanol.

I know a guy whose airplane was extensively damaged by using ethanol, and another person with a motorcycle that was also damaged. In these cases, it was not an engine problem, but the fuel tanks were made of a fiberglass/epoxy matrix that was designed for use with gasoline, but even 10% ethanol dissolved the epoxy. And there were many problems with fuel hoses, gaskets, carb floats, etc in older engines designed for use with gasoline. There's just no reason to expect that a rubber/polymer designed specifically to tolerate gasoline will also work well with alcohol. Newer engines and fuel systems that were designed after the ethanol adulteration began should be able to work with the mix, though in many cases it's still not a happy situation: They can tolerate 10% for the expected service life of the vehicle (whatever that is--I keep my vehicles a long time), but go to 15% and the clock starts ticking faster.

Hopefully there will soon be legislative relief to this situation.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Marine applications and ethanol don't mix
Old 06-24-2014, 07:01 AM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
misanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 536
Marine applications and ethanol don't mix

Quote:
Does anyone have personal knowledge of anyone with an engine of any kind that has been ruined by a gasoline containing ethanol...?
Where we have had problems is with the boats and jet skiis. Nothing permanently ruined but constant fouling of the fuel and fuel intake systems. Hard starting and rough running. We didn't have a clue it could be ethanol related until someone suggested we should try eliminating the ethanol. The improvement has been remarkable.

I understand that ethanol attracts water so maybe it's fine to use where humidity is low. In any case, I've decided to switch to 100% gas for the lawn mowers, trimmers, and chain saw at home. We'll see if it makes a noticeable difference.
__________________
"The best thing about the future is that it happens one day at a time." -- A. Lincoln
misanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 08:21 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Most modern cars that also have high compression engines run best on premium fuel. But, they have electronic knock sensors that can detect detonation before a person can even hear it, and they automatically retard the timing so that the car can run safely on fuel of lower octane. The engine won't produce as many HP and the mileage will be poorer, but the car will run. ....
That is what I understand as well. However....

... if you drive conservatively, and don't live in a hilly area, or don't often accelerate to merge onto an expressway, I would think that the anti-knock sensors wouldn't be kicking in very often at all (I think all they do is retard timing a bit from what it would be? ). So I would think any hit on mpg would be very, very slight, if at all?

Now I'm wondering about my old Volvo S40, 1.9L turbo, I've always used regular gas (manual says OK, premium 'recc') - the initial accel from a stop is sluggish if I have the A/C on and need to get moving. It's fine after a few
seconds as the engine revs and the turbo kicks in. Maybe I'll try a half tank of premium when it is near empty and see if I can feel a difference.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 08:30 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
So I would think any hit on mpg would be very, very slight, if at all?
Yes, I'd buy that. Not much of a hit to MPG if you aren't demanding much of the engine. But when the timing is being retarded (at high engine demand), the less-than-optimum timing will hurt fuel economy. A small price to pay to avoid the very rapid and serious engine damage that can result from detonation.

Of course, all of this requires that the knock sensor continues to function properly. In the default mode, a high compression engine putting out a high fraction of its rated HP will not safely run on low-octane fuel. It can take just a very short time to do a lot of damage.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 09:01 AM   #33
Full time employment: Posting here.
JakeBrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 548
I discovered recently that an exhaust manifold leak sounds almost like an engine knock.

I discovered that when I took my 1995 GMC to an independent muffler shop to replace the muffler which obviously needed to be replaced. The muffler man said I also had an exhaust manifold leak on one engine bank.This is 5.7L V8. I had heard the noise but I thought it was an engine knock. The muffler shop doesn't do exhaust manifolds.

So, I took the truck to my trusted independent shop where this was verified and repaired.
__________________

__________________
Matthew 6:34 (KJV)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
JakeBrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ethanol and the lack of Logic............ FinanceDude Other topics 20 04-23-2007 09:22 PM
Chavez and oil Brazil and ethanol newguy88 Other topics 55 09-25-2006 07:48 PM
classic hi-end audio equip. mathjak107 Other topics 12 09-10-2006 02:46 PM
FORD To Boost Ethanol Awareness SteveR Other topics 7 11-10-2005 09:46 AM
ER = Ethanol & Retirement? gratefuled Other topics 22 05-12-2005 12:57 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:42 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.