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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 07:07 PM   #21
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

I agree with TH this is a topic - we all will need to address it. Medical science can keep a body alive for extreamly long periods of time and there are many issues to be considered.

We all must admit we are influenced by history (the Nazis - the slippery slope). The concern is that the individual will not have the decision about their life but someone else will. This "someone else" can take seval l forms for example:
government
health insurance agencies
family
socialital pressure
where or how do we define a "life worth living" (who was it that said "the unexamined life is not worth living"'? How many people would that fit?)

At this point at my life - 50- I believe it is the quality of life that is important not just the quanity of life. Will this change when (if) I"m 85? I don't know.

I also agree that years from now Kevorkian will be thought of as being on the cutting edge of this issue similar to Gahandi on non vilonce or Dr. ML King or Picasso.

My brother-in laws mother can not speak and requires 24 attention to do the simplest thing - eat, go to the bathroom. She can not talk and has parkenson's desease. Is this a life I would want for myself? No. I pray that at sometime before I can not do it for myself I choose to end it.

I have signed and given to my family a "Do not ressitate" form to my family.

Please excuse spelling errors - I'm on my second glass of wine - thanks
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 07:16 PM   #22
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Quote:
...euthanasia is not an easy or clear situation.
I agree with Chuck and Mikey, the thought of "society" determining when someone can/should die scares the bejeebers out of me.

Yet I think back a few years when my 90 year old dad became critically ill. Suffering from the mid-stage of Alzheimers, he had a medical problem requiring surgery. He survived but was in a coma. With no realistic possibility of recovery and a "living will" stating he did not want to be kept alive with a feeding tube, our family stood by for 6 days as he died of thirst and starvation. He was given morphine to be sure (how can anyone know "for sure"?) he was not in pain. I remember thinking what a relief it would be for him if he accicently got a little too much morphine and peacefully expired.

I guess my point is if you think you know the answer to this problem, you are probably wrong.

REW
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 07:19 PM   #23
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Humm, I am on my third glass.

As I read folks opinion about "best places" to retire none discuss locals where an individual's decisions about their life are important.

Look at Oregon (rural, urban, red or blue communities) if you truly want to control what happens at the end of your life.

There is no place in the US with the variety of climates, live and let-live attitudes, than OR. To tell you the truth both red and blue would just as soon all of you stayed put where you are, but none of us would want you to let someone else tell you how to live (or not).
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 07:21 PM   #24
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

CT, why don't you edit your Subject line to read

"Million Dollar Baby (spoiler content)..."?

Cb
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 07:56 PM   #25
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Quote:
BTW, I have not seen the movie and this is all I have
to say on the subject since I have no support and
seem to be surrounded by Indians. *
Cheers,

Charlie
Hey Chuck, what am I-- chopped liver?

Mikey
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 08:46 PM   #26
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Thanks, mikey. I was composing while you were
disposing.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-13-2005, 09:01 PM   #27
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

I for one am on the side of Charlie and Mikey on this. I worked at an estate planning law firm for a while (as a computer guy, so don't ask me any law questions) but I remember the attorneys had to watch out for the "young nephew" or "kind neighbor" that found an older person had some net worth, and was getting them to redo their will or trust, etc. These are the type of creeps that would be glad to inject some extra morphine to help gramps along! Sickening. Definitely, if you want to end your life if certain conditions are met, have a living will, name a trustworthy person to execute it, but please don't start advocating acceptable benchmarks for "termination". My daughter is 4 months old and was born with Down Syndrome. She is the light of my life, and is quite a happy child. She needs heart surgery next month to close a hole in her heart, and believe it or not some people have told me not to do it, since her life isn't worth living (I told them where to go and how soon they could get there). I also think we don't value our elderly as much as we should. Society tends to worship the young to the point of devaluing the old or infirm. Ahhhh...oh well. Anybody see the movie Soilent Green?
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 04:45 AM   #28
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Soylent Green was - I believe - Edward G Robinson's last movie - before his passing.
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 05:08 AM   #29
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Laurencewill,

I hope your daughter's operation goes well for her. I imagine It must be very frightening for you and your wife to face this kind of surgery.


LovesLife




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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 05:31 AM   #30
 
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Hello Charlie. I have not abandoned my principles.
It's a tough issue. Visit a nursing home sometime.
It's a real problem. The devil is in the details of course.

'Soylent Green'...great movie.

Lawrencewill, best of luck to all.

JG
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 06:47 AM   #31
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Thanks all for your well wishes. She's a strong person, a real fighter, I anticipate she'll be just fine. You know, my wife worked in a nursing home during college for 3 years, and actually enjoyed the experience quite a bit. Everyone was so happy to see her, and she got real joy out of helping the people there (Of course, I would be smiling if a voluptious 19 year old blonde was adjusting my pillows in the nursing home, too). But seriously, the need for euthanasia (sp?) greatly lessons when levels of care are adequate. It's sad to see seniors in overcrowded county nursing homes, with nothing to do and no visitors, no activities, and placed on meds to be kept quiet, but if the best we can do is "put down" those with conditions that are eventually terminal, that's even more sad. I do have to say though, this Forum really likes to go straight for the tough issues. Good show!
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 08:00 AM   #32
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Best luck to your family Lawrence. Thanks for such a personal post.

Mikey
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 12:01 PM   #33
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

There are two types of people.

Those that strongly feel they should be able to do what they want in their own lives and that nobody else has any business telling them anything.

Those that strongly feel they should be able to influence others and the way that they live to follow a particular set of morals or ethics that they feel strongly about.

The first group despises the second for the intrusion.

The second group is exasperated by the first for not following what is clear to them to be the "right way".

Neither will ever agree or convert.

The core of about 99% of the major controversial topics in our lives is this difference.
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 12:14 PM   #34
 
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Good one TH. Your first type pretty much sums me up

I have not read the very long John Galt speech in 'Atlas
Shrugged' for a while, but I do remember one line.........
"Get the hell out of my way!"

JG
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-14-2005, 12:21 PM   #35
 
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

My dad was in a similar situation to one described here....84, unable to do for himself, Parkinson's disease. He had specified no tubes, etc. We began the process of selling the house, and ordering what affairs we could, also visiting, giving back rubs, etc. Medicare provided Hospice services that were very helpful and compassionate. One of the social workers even sang the 23rd psalm to Dad. He was cared for lovingly but not intrusively. I truly believe this is the way to go, not being "terminated" like an overdue book, possibly because someone has ulterior motives for pushing one over the edge, or because of some type of desperation.
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-15-2005, 03:01 AM   #36
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Being the youngest family member of a long line, I had the opportunity and duty of ministering and administering to and for the seniors in their last years, days hours and minutes. Its wonderful, horrible, joyful and sorrowful all at the same time.

Distant relatives care as much as the uninvolved can. I dont care about the political aspects of this thread. I care mostly about elderly care givers caring for the demented and terminally ill. Elderly, loving, devoted spouses who nearly kill themselves desprately caring for the love of their life. I hope we are never faced with that task but would certainly shoulder the burden if called.

One problem is these situations occur s l o w l y over time and eventually the helpful become helpless then hopeless and for the aged, the process never seems enriching or rewarding in any way. Alzheimers is one of life's dirtiest tricks. The afflicted and the care givers dont have time to vote much less go to a movie.

Answers...not looking for one. Let Washington, Bristol Myers, and public opinion rage. You can hedge your fund but not your life. When and how is not going to be in your hands...the best you can do is pick where, but thats another thread.

Be obcessed with life.

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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-15-2005, 01:32 PM   #37
 
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Quote:
What you guys are missing is that I don't care if
you *do yourselves ..... have at it for all I care.
The sooner the better for some. *

The law can't really do anything if you don't
involve someone else. *What I care about is that
I don't want somebody else to snuff you legally.
Once that is permitted who knows where it will
stop.

Now I am not talking about pulling the plug under
"death is certain" conditions. *We did that for my
grandmother when I was a child.

JG, *I am surprised that you, as a libertarian, would
welcome *euthanasia. *I guess I need to read Rand.

BTW, I have not seen the movie and this is all I have
to say on the subject since I have no support and
seem to be surrounded by Indians. *

Cheers,

Charlie


Well, Chuck, go see the movie and then tell me exactly what you would do if you were in Clint Eastwood's shoes. You can subsitute any loved one that you have for the person in the movie. And this is the situation that many have to face. Easy to take a position when you're on the sidelines; A lot tougher when you're up against real life trauma.

Right-wingers seem to change when faced with a real life situation. Ala Nancy Reagan - Stem Cell Research.

I'll be interested in hearing what you'd do, if you were in Clint's exact situation.

I'll be waiting for your answer.
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-15-2005, 02:37 PM   #38
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

BUM, what goes round comes round.

I'm sure someone will be there for you when the time comes.

We have all experienced elders in our lives who knew the meaning of family and did the right thing.

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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-15-2005, 03:24 PM   #39
 
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

I may slip off and see the movie this week. DW has
jury duty. Anyway, I am so set in what I think that I can't imagine a movie having any impact. As to Clint,
I admire him for still turning out good work at his advanced
age. He has made some "stinkers" though. Mostly
earlier in his career IMHO.

His later work is pure gold.

JG
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"
Old 02-15-2005, 03:46 PM   #40
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Re: Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

Clint is successful enough pick his scripts, keep his hand on the throttle by directing his own movies and generally enjoying his old age.

In the old Rawhide TV series - just a young actor like Charles Bronson.

Come to think - I was a 'mite' younger then myself.
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