Euthanasia scene in "Million Dollar Baby"

[Cut-Throat]

Just watched the Clint Eastwood film last night "Million Dollar Baby" and wanted to comment on the Euthanasia Scene in the movie.

This is something that as a society we are going to have to come to grips with. I would have done the same thing if I were in either characters position. Albeitit, is against the law.

Modern technology has exceeded common sense. Kevorkian was a pioneer in this area and was persecuted and prosecuted (As all pioneers have been throughout history). Clint Eastwood has raised the subject again in possibly the years Best Picture. Possibly because he (Clint) is thinking of his own demise.

This is is an important issue in Healthcare. The alternative is akin to torture.

 

[John Galt]

Welcome back C-T. You landed a big one with that post.
Have not seen the movie yet, but I will. Anyway, I agree
with your comments, 100%.

JG

 

[rockpile]

Bravo, C-T! Oftentimes, compassion and common sense must overrule government bureaucratic law and conventional morality.

If not, we'd still be guilty of violating the Dred Scott decision.

I'm with you and, gulp, JG on this one.

RP

 

[grumpy]

C-T,

I agree with you. Now that I am retired and have time and energy to get involved in this issue I have joined "End of Life Choices" (used to be the Hemlock Society). This organization works to change the laws regarding assisted suicide. I live in a rather conservative state so the chances of meaningful change are slim in the near term.

I watched my mother fade away with alzheimers and I have no intention of letting anyone else decide when my own quality of life has deteriorated beyond the point I want to continue.

I believe Dr. Kevorkian was a hero and will be recognized as one some day.

Grumpy

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I fully support the removal of victimless crimes, and as far as I'm concerned, you cant be your own victim.

I dont believe any charges should ever be filed unless there is a plaintiff who has suffered some sort of damage, and the DA cant be the plaintiff.

Wanting to end your life because you're near the end and have only suffering to look forward to is courageous, not criminal.

 

[Rich]

We treat our loved pets better at the end than we do ourselves.

 

[johnblake]

We treat our loved pets better at the end than we do ourselves.

That's right! My dog had a serious operation recently. How much did it cost? Four hundered dollars!!! I'll consider using the vet next time I need health care. After all, the last time I ended up diagnosing myself (after some library research and discussions with friends who are doctors.) Maybe I should try the vet. Afterall, we're all animals. Wait a minute, that's illegal too.

 

[charlie]

Taking your own life is one thing ..... but having
someone do it for you is quite another. It is a
slippery slope indeed. Can't you just see some
time in the distant future when "society" decides
that euthanasia is the "solution" to our escalating
costs for SS and health care? And don't say it can't happen here. The "final solution" in the 40's in Nazi Germany proved otherwise.

I beg you do not go down this path.

Charlie

 

[Michael]

To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Taking your own life is one thing ..... but having
someone do it for you is quite another.  It is a
slippery slope indeed.  Can't you just see some
time in the distant future when "society" decides
that euthanasia is the "solution" to our escalating
costs for SS and health care?  And don't say it can't happen here.  The "final solution" in the 40's in Nazi Germany proved otherwise.  

I beg you do not go down this path.

Charlie

Don't be ridiculous.  Capital Punishment is already legal, and for most of you neocons, it's not being done enough.

The state already gets to decide who dies. I would like the Freedom to decide myself. What have you Right-wingers got against Freedom anyway?

 

[charlie]

Cut, I don't understand what capital punishment
has to do with what I posted. Can't you accept
anything I say at face value without looking through
the lens of an ultra liberal? I happen to believe
that euthanasia is morally wrong and it is my right
to point that out. You are trying to stifle discussion.
You can say my comments are stupid if you like, but
not irrelevant.

Charlie

 

[kayelem]

Haven't seen the movie yet...don't think I need to now after seeing the Subject line.

 

[charlie]

P.S.

For you readers, Cut must have modified his post
above. He originally said my comments were
irrelevant to the discussion. I give him the Freedom
to do himself anytime. Just don't make it legal
for somebody else to do it.

 

[JOhn Galt]

Boys, boys...........simmer down! This is a real hot issue,
but one which is certainly appropriate to an ER site.
I may be ultra right-wing on most stuff but I am a
LIbertarian at heart. Thus I believe people should basically be left alone unless they are damaging others
and/or rubbing my nose in something distasteful
(happens to me a lot ) Anyway, my wife has worked for years in eldercare and we are in complete agreement
on this issue. Cut-Throat mat be a bit strident in his
presentation, but he is right on as far as the "solution"
(for those of you who know some history, this is not
"the final solution"), as per Charlie's post.

Anyway, the Hemingway exit will always be an option
for me. Hopefully I will die in my sleep at 90 or so.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey chuck...I have a little something to rub on the back of your neck

 

[Dr Kevorkian]

Cut, I don't understand what capital punishment
has to do with what I posted.  Can't you accept
anything I say at face value without looking through
the lens of an ultra liberal?  I happen to believe
that euthanasia is morally wrong and it is my right
to point that out.  You are trying to stifle discussion.
You can say my comments are stupid if you like, but
not irrelevant.

Charlie

Well if Cut is an ultra liberal, here a rare case that this conservative republican agrees 100% with a liberal. You sure Cut is an ultra liberal? :-/

 

[JOhn Galt]

Cut-Throat is a passionate fisherman and
determined to enjoy his money while he can still do it.
Makes perfect sense to me.

JG

 

[sgeeeee]

I don't fear death, but I do fear pain -- my own and my friend's and family's. I would like the option to end either and would hope my family has the option in case I am not capable.

If we have to die, most of us would like to die with dignity. That means we would like to have said "I love you" to the people we love, "I'm sorry" to the people who we let down, "thank-you" to those we are in debt to and "good-bye". This concept of dying with dignity is not consistent with lying in a bed hooked to tubes and wires. :-/

 

[haha]

Taking your own life is one thing ..... but having
someone do it for you is quite another.  It is a
slippery slope indeed.  Can't you just see some
time in the distant future when "society" decides
that euthanasia is the "solution" to our escalating
costs for SS and health care?  And don't say it can't happen here.  The "final solution" in the 40's in Nazi Germany proved otherwise.  

I beg you do not go down this path.
Charlie

I agree completely with Chuck. There are well established forms of legal killing. War, execution by the state after a trial and conviction, self defense, and in many countries abortion. I think it best that we not add to this list.

Like abortion, euthanasia is not an easy or clear situation. Just like young women got abortions before they were legal, I'm sure a person can get himself killed if he really wants to. Maybe we don't want to make it too easy.

Kevorkian got into trouble because he wanted to. Plenty docs have done clandestine euthanasia. They just thought it better not to publicize their work.

Mikey

 

[charlie]

What you guys are missing is that I don't care if
you do yourselves ..... have at it for all I care.
The sooner the better for some.

The law can't really do anything if you don't
involve someone else. What I care about is that
I don't want somebody else to snuff you legally.
Once that is permitted who knows where it will
stop.

Now I am not talking about pulling the plug under
"death is certain" conditions. We did that for my
grandmother when I was a child.

JG, I am surprised that you, as a libertarian, would
welcome euthanasia. I guess I need to read Rand.

BTW, I have not seen the movie and this is all I have
to say on the subject since I have no support and
seem to be surrounded by Indians.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[dex]

I agree with TH this is a topic - we all will need to address it. Medical science can keep a body alive for extreamly long periods of time and there are many issues to be considered.

We all must admit we are influenced by history (the Nazis - the slippery slope). The concern is that the individual will not have the decision about their life but someone else will. This "someone else" can take seval l forms for example:
government
health insurance agencies
family
socialital pressure
where or how do we define a "life worth living" (who was it that said "the unexamined life is not worth living"'? How many people would that fit?)

At this point at my life - 50- I believe it is the quality of life that is important not just the quanity of life. Will this change when (if) I"m 85? I don't know.

I also agree that years from now Kevorkian will be thought of as being on the cutting edge of this issue similar to Gahandi on non vilonce or Dr. ML King or Picasso.

My brother-in laws mother can not speak and requires 24 attention to do the simplest thing - eat, go to the bathroom. She can not talk and has parkenson's desease. Is this a life I would want for myself? No. I pray that at sometime before I can not do it for myself I choose to end it.

I have signed and given to my family a "Do not ressitate" form to my family.

Please excuse spelling errors - I'm on my second glass of wine - thanks

 

[REWahoo]

...euthanasia is not an easy or clear situation.

I agree with Chuck and Mikey, the thought of "society" determining when someone can/should die scares the bejeebers out of me.

Yet I think back a few years when my 90 year old dad became critically ill. Suffering from the mid-stage of Alzheimers, he had a medical problem requiring surgery. He survived but was in a coma. With no realistic possibility of recovery and a "living will" stating he did not want to be kept alive with a feeding tube, our family stood by for 6 days as he died of thirst and starvation. He was given morphine to be sure (how can anyone know "for sure"?) he was not in pain. I remember thinking what a relief it would be for him if he accicently got a little too much morphine and peacefully expired.

I guess my point is if you think you know the answer to this problem, you are probably wrong.

REW

 

[Brat]

Humm, I am on my third glass.

As I read folks opinion about "best places" to retire none discuss locals where an individual's decisions about their life are important.

Look at Oregon (rural, urban, red or blue communities) if you truly want to control what happens at the end of your life.

There is no place in the US with the variety of climates, live and let-live attitudes, than OR. To tell you the truth both red and blue would just as soon all of you stayed put where you are, but none of us would want you to let someone else tell you how to live (or not).

 

[Cb]

CT, why don't you edit your Subject line to read

"Million Dollar Baby (spoiler content)..."?

Cb

 

[haha]

BTW, I have not seen the movie and this is all I have
to say on the subject since I have no support and
seem to be surrounded by Indians.  
Cheers,

Charlie

Hey Chuck, what am I-- chopped liver?

Mikey