Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 02:00 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
So I guess a cut in tax rates does create more revenue to the government afterall.
It does work, but not according to Democrats............
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 04:58 PM   #2
 
Posts: n/a
Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
It does work, but not according to Democrats............
There has never been a 'Tax Cut' during the Reagan or Bushie years! - Only Tax deferrals, that have been passed on to future generations. Since there was no associated decrease in spending, it was impossible to have a Tax Cut.

Reagan just got out the Visa Card and started spending, the same mirage that is created in an American Home when the uniformed increases his standard of living by mortgaging the future!

You guys just keep drinking the Republican Kool-Aid. - Deep down, do you really believe this Load! :

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 07:07 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 370
Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
There has never been a 'Tax Cut' during the Reagan or Bushie years! - Only Tax deferrals, that have been passed on to future generations. Since there was no associated decrease in spending, it was impossible to have a Tax Cut.

Reagan just got out the Visa Card and started spending, the same mirage that is created in an American Home when the uniformed increases his standard of living by mortgaging the future!

You guys just keep drinking the Republican Kool-Aid. - Deep down, do you really believe this Load! :

I believe it is a matter of record that tax cuts - not tax increases - result in increased tax revenues.

On the spending side, Bush sure has disappointed, but hold onto your wallet if Dems get control - can you imagine government healthcare?

I am really surprised that so many financially astute people in this forum are so willing to give more of their hard earned / saved money back to the government.
__________________
Arc is offline   Reply With Quote
Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 07:09 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc

I am really surprised that so many financially astute people in this forum are so willing to give more of their hard earned / saved money back to the government.
Me too. Sick, sick, sick.

JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 09:07 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
I believe it is a matter of record that tax cuts - not tax increases - result in increased tax revenues.
I believe the data are inconclusive. In any case, I prefer to cut middle class taxes. The wealthy don't need more municipal bonds as much as middle class America needs the basics of a decent life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
On the spending side, Bush sure has disappointed, but hold onto your wallet if Dems get control - can you imagine government healthcare?
Yes, my mother uses Medicare. Works great.
Bush aided by this Republican Congress has outspent every other administration and dug us into the worst deficit ever--and yet you point your fingers at what Democrats might do in the future (and for health care, no less, not for worse than useless invasions and occupations!). hokay.... :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
I am really surprised that so many financially astute people in this forum are so willing to give more of their hard earned / saved money back to the government.
Consider turning off Rush, turning off Fox, and listening to some other voices.
__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 10:21 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Re: Even more political rants

I had read this awhile back.. and thought that it was not true... but it seems to be.... this is for spending... and maybe more .... I don't remember it all..

The WORST government is REPUBLICAN congress and REPUBLICAN president...

The next worse... DEM congress and DEM president....

The next worse... DEM congress and REB president...

And the best... I hate to admit... REP congress and DEM president...

This even holds true with Clinton... spending was WAY down compared to other times and they were even talking about a balanced budget for awhile...

Well, the REPs have dashed that thought... and now talking about another decade or more to get it back there... but guess what? We have this BIG IOU coming and there is NO WAY we will be in balance for the rest of my life... maybe even my nephews and nieces lives... I see 50 plus years of deficiets with the SS, Medicare, drug plan and other 'mandatory' spending...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-30-2006, 10:56 PM   #7
Recycles dryer sheets
Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 370
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
I believe the data are inconclusive. In any case, I prefer to cut middle class taxes. The wealthy don't need more municipal bonds as much as middle class America needs the basics of a decent life.


Yes, my mother uses Medicare. Works great.
Bush aided by this Republican Congress has outspent every other administration and dug us into the worst deficit ever--and yet you point your fingers at what Democrats might do in the future (and for health care, no less, not for worse than useless invasions and occupations!). hokay.... :


Consider turning off Rush, turning off Fox, and listening to some other voices.
My problem with your rational is twofold: (1) Capitalism IMHO is not a needs based philosophy, it is contribution based and (2) I struggle with who gets to determine who needs what - Bonds vs decent way of life may seem obvious but it gets slippery very quickly.


I wasn't really referring to Medicare (which is in financial distress). I'm referring to the cradle to grave insurance plan that will be inevitable if Dems return to power. I'm not aware of one service that the Federal Govt delivers in a more efficient and cost effective manner than the private sector and we think that Healthcare will be the exeption?

I also agree that Bush outspent previous administrations - my twisted view here is that he did it to take issues away from the Dems - beat them to the punch so to speak. A high cost to retain power. Regarding the War, I'm very comfortable with an aggressive stance by US on matters of National Security. As it relates to $ cost, you tell me what this American way of life is worth.

Is Dan Rather back on? What Channel?


__________________
Arc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 12:36 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
...

The WORST government is REPUBLICAN congress and REPUBLICAN president...

The next worse... DEM congress and DEM president....

. . .
This really isn't too surprising. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. A politician that doesn't have to compromise tends not to listen to all voices.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 04:35 AM   #9
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
This really isn't too surprising. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. A politician that doesn't have to compromise tends not to listen to all voices.
And a polemist who doesn't want to compromise tends not to listen to any voices.

JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 09:03 AM   #10
Recycles dryer sheets
wompo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sierra Vista
Posts: 53
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
I believe it is a matter of record that tax cuts - not tax increases - result in increased tax revenues.

On the spending side, Bush sure has disappointed, but hold onto your wallet if Dems get control - can you imagine government healthcare?

I am really surprised that so many financially astute people in this forum are so willing to give more of their hard earned / saved money back to the government.
If you cut taxes and get increased tax revenues I am assuming the people getting the tax cuts are then spending them in a way that will create jobs. Is it true that when tax cuts are made the unemployment rate decreases?
__________________
FIRE may actually be attainable
wompo is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 07:39 PM   #11
Recycles dryer sheets
Kwirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 154
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
I believe it is a matter of record that tax cuts - not tax increases - result in increased tax revenues.
Then the obvious answer is to drop taxes to zero and collect a fortune? : Surely you must realize that either too much or too little taxation is harmful.

I'm beginning to think there is something to this Republican Kool-aid idea.
__________________
Prepare for the future. Everything changes.
Kwirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 08:53 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
There has never been a 'Tax Cut' during the Reagan or Bushie years! - Only Tax deferrals, that have been passed on to future generations. Since there was no associated decrease in spending, it was impossible to have a Tax Cut.
Yes and no.

Certainly there is more government debt in absolute terms. But there is also more national income. The idea that we are passing tax increases along to future generations implies that future generations will be worse off. That is only true if the economy is less able to service the higher debt load. But the debt / GDP ratio is about the same now as it has been for the past 40 years, suggesting the economy is no less able to support its debt burden now then in 1960.

Unfunded entitlement obligations are another story.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 10-31-2006, 10:01 PM   #13
Recycles dryer sheets
Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 370
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwirk
Then the obvious answer is to drop taxes to zero and collect a fortune? : Surely you must realize that either too much or too little taxation is harmful.

I'm beginning to think there is something to this Republican Kool-aid idea.
Where did that come from?
__________________
Arc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 05:58 AM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
can you imagine government healthcare?
Since I live in Canada, I can. Top income tax rate, starting at about $70K is about 47% (varies by province), 6% Federal sales tax, 6% Provincial sales tax (varies by province, 1 is 0%), some provinces have 'Health Care Premium' of about $400).

Quality and accessability won't be mentioned here.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 06:30 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Even more political rants

I've heard the experts, don't ask where it was a long time ago, say that once the tax burden reaches about 40%, a very large underground economy develops. I would think Canada has that economy.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 07:43 AM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,649
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwirk
Then the obvious answer is to drop taxes to zero and collect a fortune? : Surely you must realize that either too much or too little taxation is harmful.

I'm beginning to think there is something to this Republican Kool-aid idea.
[i]
Kwirk has it right. At some level taxes undountedly become enough of an anchor that they depress output. But at today's levels, cuts cannot be expected to pay for themselves. Any tax cuts need to be accompanied by cuts in spending. That wasn't done with the Bush cuts and that is why they are driving us deeper and deeper into a hole. Add in the fact that Bush's war didn't pay for itself either (as they projected it would) and we are in dire straits.

take a look at this analysis to get an idea of what the data show about tax cuts and revenue. Here is a quote:

Despite recent statements by the President, Vice President, and certain Congressional leaders that tax cuts pay for themselves, economists from across the political spectrum ó including the Administrationís current and former chief economists ó reject this notion. Further, the Treasury Departmentís own analysis of the Presidentís tax cuts confirms common sense and conventional wisdom; it concludes that, even under favorable assumptions, the tax cuts would generate added growth that would offset no more than 10 percent of their long-term costs.

Disclaimer: the link is to the Center on Budget and Policies Priorities. This is an outfit that was established in the early 80s to analyze the impact of budget actions on the poor. So it could be expected to lean left. But its analyses stand on their own. Read them and counter - don't just make ad hominem attacks a la Rush.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 07:56 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,649
Re: Even more political rants

As long as this thread is described in generic terms I guess it is OK to change the sub-subject. Now the party of limited government has decided it is appropriate to waste spend our tax dollars telling adults not to have sex. From a US Today article:

The federal government's "no sex without marriage" message isn't just for kids anymore. Now the government is targeting unmarried adults up to age 29 as part of its abstinence-only programs, which include millions of dollars in federal money that will be available to the states under revised federal grant guidelines for 2007."
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 09:41 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 370
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
Kwirk has it right. At some level taxes undountedly become enough of an anchor that they depress output. But at today's levels, cuts cannot be expected to pay for themselves. Any tax cuts need to be accompanied by cuts in spending. That wasn't done with the Bush cuts and that is why they are driving us deeper and deeper into a hole. Add in the fact that Bush's war didn't pay for itself either (as they projected it would) and we are in dire straits.

take a look at this analysis to get an idea of what the data show about tax cuts and revenue. Here is a quote:

Despite recent statements by the President, Vice President, and certain Congressional leaders that tax cuts pay for themselves, economists from across the political spectrum ó including the Administrationís current and former chief economists ó reject this notion. Further, the Treasury Departmentís own analysis of the Presidentís tax cuts confirms common sense and conventional wisdom; it concludes that, even under favorable assumptions, the tax cuts would generate added growth that would offset no more than 10 percent of their long-term costs.

Disclaimer: the link is to the Center on Budget and Policies Priorities. This is an outfit that was established in the early 80s to analyze the impact of budget actions on the poor. So it could be expected to lean left. But its analyses stand on their own. Read them and counter - don't just make ad hominem attacks a la Rush.
I am all for tax cuts and reduced spending. I believe the Republicans are our best bet for tax cuts (or at least no tax hikes) - especially since the Dems agenda clearly states their intent to roll back Bush tax cuts - its a matter of record.

And even given recent history, I'll go with the Republicans on spending over the long term. National Healthcare scares me as does Dems refusal to seriously look at a Social Security - these dollars are astronomical. And no I didn't forget about the war. Whether you agree with it or not, National Defense is one of the very few expenditures that is actually provided for in the Constitution.
__________________
Arc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-01-2006, 10:44 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
I am all for tax cuts and reduced spending. I believe the Republicans are our best bet for tax cuts (or at least no tax hikes)
Well, Bush and the Repubs got one out of two, just like Clinton.

Bush the elder? "Read my lips."

Reagan? Tax cut, tax hikes, and increased spending. So 3/4 out of 2?
__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Even more political rants
Old 11-02-2006, 04:18 AM   #20
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Re: Even more political rants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
Whether you agree with it or not, National Defense is one of the very few expenditures that is actually provided for in the Constitution.
And one of the very few things the fed. government should even get involved in.

JG
__________________

__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how did you happen to affiliate with your political party? lazygood4nothinbum Other topics 47 03-28-2007 11:01 AM
Like England, can a third political party come along and challenge the ideology janeeyre Other topics 31 01-28-2007 07:29 PM
Are the political threads more hostile? donheff Other topics 25 11-15-2006 07:05 PM
Mud slinging political adds sgeeeee Other topics 34 11-02-2006 10:41 AM
political dialogue in USA califdreamer Other topics 38 06-14-2006 05:37 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.