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Old 08-03-2016, 02:33 PM   #21
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The individuals response.... That is the mysterious factor behind all of it...

Well potato chips isn't an addiction is it?
Yes, potato chips are addictive. Same with soft drinks. Just look at people around you.


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I think everyone has been affected indirectly.

Higher taxes for to remedial programs, homeless people in the streets, house break-ins, car accidents etc.

That's why I support full legalization of all drugs. Tax it, regulate it, get it out of the shadows and help those who want help.

If drugs like meth, cocaine, and heroin are inexpensively and legally available, what happens to the coke heads and meth heads? Will they be able to support themselves with jobs, and be responsible citizens? Would any employer want them?

I thought the Netherlands experimented with something like this, and it did not work out.

I think we will end up provide to the addicts food and shelter in addition to the drugs. Will it even eliminate the drug pushers? What if the addicts are not happy with the dosage that the government gives them, and want more? There will be a black market to support it. And where do the addicts get money for "supplemental" dosage? These are the people who act on impulse and cannot stop, remember?
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:37 PM   #22
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Makes me realize and appreciate how I have been very fortunate (so far). Booze has been an issue with family members (parents), but narcotics have never been a part of my life. My son was home from college a few weeks ago and described his experience with ecstasy at a rave. I appreciated his honesty and trust but it was very difficult to not "chew his ass out" and lecture him.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:53 PM   #23
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My son was home from college a few weeks ago and described his experience with ecstasy at a rave. I appreciated his honesty and trust but it was very difficult to not "chew his ass out" and lecture him.
I sent my son to NY Military Academy for HS and he told me he'd never try heroin because he'd talked to kids who had been through heroin withdrawal and they said it was hell. I guess that was good news!

Drug addiction does seem to have some body chemistry component to it. DH has had to take opioids on and off for back pain but doesn't like the constipation that comes with it, so addiction was never a concern of mine. Right now he's taking Marinol (made from synthetic THC) to increase his appetite because he's got leukemia and was really losing weight (as in 6'2" and 137 lbs.). He's eating again, thank God, and has gained weight. I just laughed when he bought an 8 oz. bag of potato chips on the way home from church and ate them for lunch with a wedge of cheese! You can be sure I won't be experimenting with that stuff.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:01 PM   #24
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Difficult subject, for sure.

If one really wants to see what is going on inside the drug world (and it's a big one), the National Geographic channel is running one hour long specials called Drugs,Inc filmed at various cities and countries in the world. The documentaries are filmed with the permission of individuals involved in the manufacture, transportation, distribution and sales of illegal drugs. This is quite real and I am amazed at the level of interviews, from the addicts, the sellers, the dealers and even the Cartel employees. Very eye opening stuff.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:06 PM   #25
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I guess a reason I never tried anything beyond cigarettes and alcohol is seeing my uncle died a miserable drug addict.

To this day, I never have any interest in MJ. As far as I know, none of other people in my family ever tried it, or at least none of them become habitual users. If any has tried it, he/she keeps it to him/herself because it is not condone in my extended family.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:24 PM   #26
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Couple of months ago I went to the ER in extreme pain. After testing they gave me IV diludid, pain was gone and I suddenly understood why people get addicted to things like that. Wicked stuff, I've never felt euphoria like that.
I got that same drug just a few months ago. It was great that the pain was gone but I don't remember any euphoria, just being happy that the extreme pain was gone. The nurse said it is on the order of eight times stronger than morphine. But my first question was "Can I take some of that home?"

"No."

"Dang."

I was on it all night and partway into the next day, doses every 3 1/2 hours. It was like being in two universes, if I opened my eyes I saw the hospital room and DW there, close my eyes and I'm "somewhere else", dunno where but at one point I was talking to Roman soldiers. Not scary or anything, just weird. DW said I was talking nonsense strings of words, she remembers "pave the road in blue balloons".

I guess I was kind of "out of it" one might say.

I wouldn't want to live there but it is great to have on the shelf as an alternative to the kind of pain I was in.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:30 PM   #27
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My sister in law was a smack (heroin) junkie. Stole all her Ma's dough and Ma called us and said "get me out of here" and we did. From time to time we would send her some dough so she could move to a new flea bag motel. What a waste. She quit her nice government job to become a full time dope addict.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:31 PM   #28
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Cousin died from heroin overdose leaving behind a beautiful wife and baby. He had a friend who was hooked and thought he could show him that he could quit using willpower alone, but instead got hooked himself.
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:15 PM   #29
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Makes me realize and appreciate how I have been very fortunate (so far). Booze has been an issue with family members (parents), but narcotics have never been a part of my life. My son was home from college a few weeks ago and described his experience with ecstasy at a rave. I appreciated his honesty and trust but it was very difficult to not "chew his ass out" and lecture him.
I think in twenty years you and he will laugh about it.

I only wish my DF would have done something similar with my DB. Sometimes folks trying to do the right things really make it much worse for many people.
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:42 PM   #30
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It isn't just addiction, it's physical dependency. The opioids cause the number of receptors to increase and then when they are not satiated, withdrawal occurs. Withdrawal can cause vomiting, diarrhea, shakes, pain, fever, and even seizures. Many people become dependent being treated for real pain. Unfortunately, it appears one becomes less pain tolerant the longer one is on the medication.


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Old 08-03-2016, 06:04 PM   #31
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It isn't just addiction, it's physical dependency. The opioids cause the number of receptors to increase and then when they are not satiated, withdrawal occurs. Withdrawal can cause vomiting, diarrhea, shakes, pain, fever, and even seizures. Many people become dependent being treated for real pain. Unfortunately, it appears one becomes less pain tolerant the longer one is on the medication.


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Some people I know who are dependent are taking Soboxone to try to get free of the curse.
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:15 PM   #32
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So the serious side.
One cousin ruined his life with alcohol abuse, turned into a loser in a small town.

Some folks crush the opioid oxycotin to get around the time release nature of the pill, so they get a big rush all at once, must be very addicting.

I've read alcohol withdrawal is painful and deadly and must be done slowly, while heroin withdrawal is painful but not deadly so it's interesting that alcohol is legal, but heroin is not.

I disagree with the medical profession lockup on prescription drugs, I think since I can buy many products that are harmful to life (alcohol, cars, fertilizer, asbestos, sunlamps) that I should be able to buy whatever prescription I desire.
People who want to ruin their own lives will regardless of the laws, but many of these laws prevent law abiding folks from getting the treatment they need.

My relative has cancer, and requires very strong pain killers, so if they run out on Sunday, then it's a trip to the hospital as waiting to Monday is not an option. Why does this happen, because they literally count each pill, and refuse to refill until you are down to the last one. And it takes a doctor prescription for each refill.
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:51 PM   #33
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My Grand Mother used to tell a story of how when she was 7 years old the whole household became very sick ( whooping cough?) and she walked 8 miles to the village pharmacy and convinced the pharmacist to give her a bottle of paregoric on credit.
Good thing people were so much smarter and better back then.

I can't believe NY just let the governor run through a new bill limiting the amount of drugs that can be giving out per doctor visit. I didn't even know Prince Andy had a medical degree. This is going to cause quite a few hard working people I know a lot of inconvenience and expense.

I've had some family problems with heroin, personally had issues in college with pot and Calculus - can't do higher math when high. Other than having to quit weed to finish college it never caused any issues.

But most of my family's issues were alcohol and tobacco based, not illegal substances.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:21 PM   #34
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When I was a young lawyer, one of my pro bono activities was working with a local inner-city high school. I would go talk to the students in class about the legal system and then take them on a field trip to the criminal court. I did this for several years. Before we went into the courthouse each time, I would stop on the front steps and tell the group of students the same thing:

"Pay close attention to the things you see and hear today. You will notice that everything, and I really mean everything, is related to drugs. The defendant was busted for drug possession. The defendant was on drugs when they committed some other crime. The defendant committed a crime to get money to buy drugs. The defendant was involved in the sale and distribution of drugs, including the gang violence related to that activity. The defendant is on drugs right now. The defendant's sentence involves some sort of drug treatment or rehab. The defendant was on parole or probation with conditions and failed the required drug test. Everything that happens in this courthouse involves drugs."

I left it to them to draw the necessary conclusion for their own lives.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:45 PM   #35
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Like many current ER types I was in college in the '70s, so I saw a LOT of drug use among my fellow students. Most folks got through this phase just fine and eventually became upstanding and quite boringly legal members of society.

And I knew a few who flushed out of school never to return including a suicide and a couple who were institutionalized for a time.

You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

Seriously though, the question isn't whether drugs can be dangerous and harmful - I think most would agree they can be - but whether greater harm is done via prohibition or legalized use.
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:10 PM   #36
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I got that same drug just a few months ago. It was great that the pain was gone but I don't remember any euphoria, just being happy that the extreme pain was gone. The nurse said it is on the order of eight times stronger than morphine. But my first question was "Can I take some of that home?"

"No."

"Dang."

I was on it all night and partway into the next day, doses every 3 1/2 hours. It was like being in two universes, if I opened my eyes I saw the hospital room and DW there, close my eyes and I'm "somewhere else", dunno where but at one point I was talking to Roman soldiers. Not scary or anything, just weird. DW said I was talking nonsense strings of words, she remembers "pave the road in blue balloons".

I guess I was kind of "out of it" one might say.

I wouldn't want to live there but it is great to have on the shelf as an alternative to the kind of pain I was in.
Dilaudid was the pain medication I got intravenously for 2 days out of the surgery. They cut me up pretty bad. I was never hallucinating, and had lucid conversation with my wife. I even surfed the Web with my laptop to look for medical info, and to check up on my stocks.

After two days, they switched me to oral oxycodone. Could not tell the difference. When I went home, thought I could do without oxycodone, and tried to, but quickly got back to 1/2 dosage because of the pain.

By the way, right after I woke up from surgery, they wanted me to get out of bed to take a walk. I tried, still woozy from the anesthesia, plus whatever drugs they pumped into me. I got as far as a few steps out of my room, hanging on the IV stand, looked back and saw that the worthless orderly was standing back several steps from me, looking down and tapping on his smartphone. He was supposed to be close to me to catch me if I fell. I told the jerk to get me back into my bed.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:54 PM   #37
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I think anyone who is alive in the world has been affected by drugs, if only to pay the increased police, insurance, welfare and prison costs associated with drugs.

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Old 08-04-2016, 03:10 PM   #38
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I disagree with the medical profession lockup on prescription drugs, I think since I can buy many products that are harmful to life (alcohol, cars, fertilizer, asbestos, sunlamps) that I should be able to buy whatever prescription I desire.
Actually it isn't the medical profession, but the federal and state legislators. There was an interesting history channel show a while back about the history of drug legislation, some based on social perceptions, some on the perceived damage to society of people overdosing. While one can make a valid argument that legalizing at least some drugs would be better, I'd venture that legalizing a drug such as the dilaudid I experienced would be a very bad thing. If that were to happen there is not a shade of doubt in my mind that hundreds if not thousands of people would die from overdosing on it. It's powerful stuff and should remain under lock and key.
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ever been affected by illegal drugs?
Old 08-04-2016, 03:22 PM   #39
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ever been affected by illegal drugs?

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I guess a reason I never tried anything beyond cigarettes and alcohol is seeing my uncle died a miserable drug addict.

To this day, I never have any interest in MJ. As far as I know, none of other people in my family ever tried it, or at least none of them become habitual users. If any has tried it, he/she keeps it to him/herself because it is not condone in my extended family.


I tried MJ 3 times in college....The first two times, my stomach almost exploded from shoveling down an entire package of oreos and still was feeling "hungry". The third time I fell asleep.... I failed as a MJ user... So I never did it again... Now Carmex....If I ever ran out of that lip balm stuff and was out of money, I would seriously consider armed robbery to get "my fix".


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Old 08-06-2016, 06:27 PM   #40
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It isn't just addiction, it's physical dependency. The opioids cause the number of receptors to increase and then when they are not satiated, withdrawal occurs. Withdrawal can cause vomiting, diarrhea, shakes, pain, fever, and even seizures. Many people become dependent being treated for real pain. Unfortunately, it appears one becomes less pain tolerant the longer one is on the medication.
My most memorable exposure to the relationship between brain chemistry and mental health was the beautiful Bangladeshi PhD/EE with bipolar disorder I briefly dated quite a few years ago. When she was 'up', she was a bundle of energy practically bouncing off the walls with joy. When she was 'down', she was basically incapacitated. Very sad. She said that she had spent thousands on treatments that had not worked.
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