Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-18-2005, 09:02 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Article about how the US is losing its edge on developing countries, why and what it should do about it.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/artic...081269,00.html
__________________

__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 08:24 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
Article about how the US is losing its edge on developing countries, why and what it should do about it.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/artic...081269,00.html
I couldn't get beyond the first page without a signup, but that first page was depressing enough.* Unfortunately, I find myself agreeing with every word
__________________

__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 09:38 AM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 188
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Ditto ....

The thesis behind this article is so true that it is painful to read.

The simple truth is that the U.S. has lost or is losing its competitive edge in manufacturing and other basic industries upon which a modern industrial society is based. Beyond acknowledging the possibility that this may be so, however, most of our political leaders -- of both parties -- seem to be adopting the ostrich approach: "if we ignore it, maybe it will go away."

Rather than permutations of morality, the next national elections should be about revival of the American spirt and competitiveness. They won't be though. We are on a path to economic decline that will be irreversible without the kind of commitment that put men on the moon a generation ago.
__________________
playaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 10:19 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

I agree with our
Quote:
"if we ignore it, maybe it will go away."
approach

If any of you are at the library I think the rest of the article is worth a few minutes

While it may not be true in every survey or stat I do think it presents a good argument that things need to change.

If you didn't make it to the rest of the article a few points that I remember:

1) Says international students are staying home more often to go to school and the ones that do come to the US leave and go back home. From my experiences in school I see students from some countries that want to stay and others go. Just as an observation Phd programs are flooded with internationals and many international students receive big incentives to come here. One fellow student is in the Chinese military and he gets everything paid for and he will return after school.

2) US math scores on SAT/ACT/other ranks 29th vs Finland 1st - others. Says education system is failing. Students are not encouraged to go into engineering/science fields because it is not considered cool here

3) Needless to say it talks about the US auto makers; China is about to ship its first fleet of Chinese cars to be sold in US; Toyota has been cleaning up for some time.

4) Lastly about how our quality of life will decline as we lose our edge, experience low wage growth due to emerging markets that can do the same work for less and etc.

__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 10:44 AM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
I agree with our *approach

If any of you are at the library I think the rest of the article is worth a few minutes

While it may not be true in every survey or stat I do think it presents a good argument that things need to change.*

If you didn't make it to the rest of the article a few points that I remember:

1) Says international students are staying home more often to go to school and the ones that do come to the US leave and go back home.* From my experiences in school I see students from some countries that want to stay and others go.* Just as an observation Phd programs are flooded with internationals and many international students receive big incentives to come here.* One fellow student is in the Chinese military and he gets everything paid for and he will return after school.

2) US math scores on SAT/ACT/other ranks 29th vs Finland 1st - others.* Says education system is failing.* Students are not encouraged to go into engineering/science fields because it is not considered cool here*

3) Needless to say it talks about the US auto makers; China is about to ship its first fleet of Chinese cars to be sold in US; Toyota has been cleaning up for some time.

4) Lastly about how our quality of life will decline as we lose our edge, experience low wage growth due to emerging markets that can do the same work for less and etc.

International Students:* If you are a nonbeliever, take in a graduation at a major university (MA/PHD).* One look at the names on the program tells the story.* Similar at many med schools as well.

SAT scores: Still some good schools, but I think at least 50% of big city schools have been dumbed down to the breaking point.* Parents?? A fair amount of dumbing down there also.* Science uncool?* One of the most respected professions out there, but not one that is cool to kids. Parents again?* Huge shortage of doctors on the way. Docs today don't encourage their kids to do the same. Malpractice insurance and others. I have a front row seat to that with a kid in med school.

Auto Industry:* The unions wounded it. The question is - -will they save it.
The US can build great cars, and given a chance they will.

Quality of life: The future ain't what it used to be---Yogi I think.
__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 11:00 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

In our grad program we have close to 40% international
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 12:11 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,567
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Rather than permutations of morality, the next national elections should be about revival of the American spirt and competitiveness. They won't be though. We are on a path to economic decline that will be irreversible without the kind of commitment that put men on the moon a generation ago
You're right but that moon thing didn't happen by itself. It was a highly centralized Big Government program. I don't know which side would want to take credit for that nowadays. It was a thinly veiled military R/D program and a
"Let's all wash each other's backs" deal to allow "free enterprise" to make lots of money with no real market being serviced. Lots of socialized funding and privatized profits and no market economy at all. But hey, it f'ing worked didn't it!? Sometimes I guess that's what it takes. But like I said, I don't know which side would be willing to glom onto anything like that.
__________________
razztazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 12:22 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Duh?

Sputnik!!!!! Nixon/Krushchev kitchen debates. "We will bury you. Da Cold War. Duck and Cover.

Beat those durn Russians and the communist way of life.

"Whatever it takes to beat those B*st%#d's."

Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh

Dr Strangelove is still of my farovite movies!

__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 12:29 PM   #9
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Yada. yada, yada... 'They' were saying the same things when I was in college in the 80s. Yup, at least 40% foreigners then too. Remember RCA? I didn't think I'd be able to find a decent job outside of Reagan's military machine. Even if our GDP growth slowed for many years, Americans would still be very well off.
__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 12:35 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Compared to what?
__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 12:54 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by razztazz
It was a thinly veiled military R/D program and a "Let's all wash each other's backs" deal to allow "free enterprise" to make lots of money with no real market being serviced.* Lots of socialized funding and privatized profits and no market economy at all.*
Yeah, but look at the spinoffs.

If the space program hadn't created an urgent need for "Tang", then Bill Gates would never have been able to stay awake all those nights in the 1970s messing with BASIC...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 01:17 PM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPatrick
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Even if our GDP growth slowed for many years, Americans would still be very well off.
[quote
Compared to what?
Compared to any society in the history of the world!! If we are forced to cut our resource consumption to compete, it will be a good thing.
__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 01:44 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JPatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,494
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB


Compared to any society in the history of the world!!* If we are forced to cut our resource consumption to compete, it will be a good thing.
Better off than any society in the world?? That's a little fuzzy. Sure, we may be higher on the ladder, but there are many rungs and I'm not so sure we will be as high as we could be.
Shrinking GDP is not necessarily tied to our own (high) personal consumption of anything, although a shrinking GDP may result in a cut of our consumption. A cut most will not be as sanguine about as you are.
__________________
JPatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 01:51 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
Even if our GDP growth slowed for many years, Americans would still be very well off.
Not Americans who invest in the stock market. Japan, anybody?
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 02:49 PM   #15
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Even after over 15 years of slow GDP growth Japan still has a very high per capita GDP. Probably second (behind the US) out of all populous countries. I'd say they are still 'well off'.
__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 03:09 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
Even after over 15 years of slow GDP growth Japan still has a very high per capita GDP.* Probably second (behind the US) out of all populous countries.* I'd say they are still 'well off'.
Right, but GDP *growth* is largely what determines stock market returns.* *Their growth has been slow and even negative over the last 10 years, and that is reflected in their markets.* *I'll bet that they don't have a lot of early retirees there.
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 05:01 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
Even after over 15 years of slow GDP growth Japan still has a very high per capita GDP.* Probably second (behind the US) out of all populous countries.* I'd say they are still 'well off'.
Very well off indeed. But it is dangerous to extrapolate from Japan to the US. For one thing, many Japanese could live for years off their savings. Not so here. For another, they have a much more disciplined, tractable and socially cooperative society. And last, they can still sell goods abroad profitably.

Look out Mama if we have a slump anything like Japan has had.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 06:58 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 223
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Well, I already posted a new topic asking opinions about this website, and promised not to post a link for fear of being labeled a spammer, but this is too on-point not to post:

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/Issues/2005/DR071905.html
__________________
SLC Tortfeasor is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 07:23 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

Very similar to the crap I read in the 70's - listening to which cost me a lot of money and dented what could have been a much larger nest egg.

I must must confess to reading Bill Bonner and company from time to time - at least this time around I don't act on it - in the old days - I had a job.

Goggle - Fiend's SuperBear Page - if you want to broaden your cross section of contrary views.

I'm a little gun shy - still have a couple gold coins and a worthless 10% interest in a Co gold mine.

This time it's De Gaul and the Norwegian widow.

I do putz a little - but that's lagniappe.

__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge
Old 07-19-2005, 08:36 PM   #20
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Excellent Fortune article - US losing its edge

So this is the gloom and doom thread.* Hey, my kinda place!

America's Truth Deficit

By WILLIAM GREIDER
Washington

...The possibility that the United States can no longer afford globalization, at least not as it now functions, is what opinion leaders do not wish to discuss. A few brave dissenters have stated the matter plainly and called for significant policy shifts to stop the hemorrhaging. Warren Buffett, the legendary investor, says the United States is destined to become not an "ownership society," but a "sharecropper society." But his analysis, and others like it, are brushed aside.

An authentic debate might start by asking heretical questions: Why is the United States one of the few advanced economies that suffers from perennial trade deficits? Why do new trade agreements, despite official promises, always leave the United States with a deeper deficit hole, with another wave of jobs moving overseas?...
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Excellent article on 1st world birth rate decline laurence Other topics 15 05-25-2006 07:55 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.