Based on your initial comment and experience in settling our family estates, their WILL be resentment. That said, you should do what seems fair to you, and what your parents would have wanted, taking into account when they made their wills and any subsequent discussions. Perhaps also their is an opportunity for them to participate in remaining tasks...
Executor's Fee
- Thread starter GalaxyBoy
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Based on your initial comment and experience in settling our family estates, their WILL be resentment. That said, you should do what seems fair to you, and what your parents would have wanted, taking into account when they made their wills and any subsequent discussions. Perhaps also their is an opportunity for them to participate in remaining tasks...
RunningBum
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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That's all fine and good, but sometimes it depends whether you want to be right, or if you still want to be able to talk to your family. If keeping family relations isn't important, stick to your guns on the fees. If it is important, maybe you gotta pick your battles and bend if it's not important. Take your actual out of pocket expenses, show them, and split the rest. Better yet, I don't think the OP really has talked this out with his brother. I'd tell him how much work was involved, and ask him what he thinks would be fair.
Saying "Family works both ways" sounds good, but that isn't always a reflection of real life either.
Dog
Full time employment: Posting here.
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I was executor for my mom (also helped her for 2 years before she passed). She had 5 timeshares in 3 different states and Mexico requiring going through probate in two of the states. It took over about 18 months to settle her estate and I kept my siblings updated with emails and spreadsheets. The estate ended up with just under $400k to be split 5 ways. I asked my siblings how they felt about me taking a fee. Only one sister questioned it even though she acknowledged the time, energy and frustration I went through (timeshares were difficult to deal with and there were medical insurance issues with Medicare that were a pain to clean up) and I did take a $3k fee and I don’t feel a bit guilty about it and didn’t hear any complaints either. In fact four of my siblings encouraged me to take a higher fee.
I encourage you to document the work and time and ask them what would be a fair fee.
I encourage you to document the work and time and ask them what would be a fair fee.
In my case it was pretty easy. After my mother passed away, I worked with my father for almost a year and a half tracking down all the various insurance policies and bank deposits (for a toaster I suppose) that she had opened. She also had some DRIP stock accounts that I pulled into Fidelity to make things easier once DF passed.
Fidelity in the beneficiaries case could only split the amount in even numbers. My DF told them to give me 34% and the siblings 33%. After his passing I told this to my siblings and they were OK as neither had any interest in doing the work. I did not take a fee in any of the other stuff that I had to dispose of (insurance policies, bank account, home, etc). The 1% came to about $19K and was about .89% of the entire estate. I didn't feel that I needed any more than that as it payed me over $140/hour to close everything out.
Fidelity in the beneficiaries case could only split the amount in even numbers. My DF told them to give me 34% and the siblings 33%. After his passing I told this to my siblings and they were OK as neither had any interest in doing the work. I did not take a fee in any of the other stuff that I had to dispose of (insurance policies, bank account, home, etc). The 1% came to about $19K and was about .89% of the entire estate. I didn't feel that I needed any more than that as it payed me over $140/hour to close everything out.
I assume someone above me as already told you that an executor's fee is taxable income and an inheritance is tax free. To me, when it's 1 or 2 beneficairies it's a no-brainer to decline the fee as you are better off with the tax free money. At 1/3 you come out behind financially to decline the fee but ahead with your family. Almost always best to decline the fee in family situations in my professional opinion.
Family is tricky. I've seen families irreparably sever ties over disputes over inheritance. My husband's family has potential to do that if his father's death offers any clues (his mother is still living and inherited most of the assets - so siblings weren't involved.)
My sister was trustee for my parents estate and my brothers (lack of) estate. I helped where I could - and she outsourced stuff like tax filings. She took a fee and I'm ok with that. Money is NOT worth losing family over.
We're in process of updating our trust. I'll make sure there is direction for the trustee to take a fee while managing the trust after (both of our) deaths.
OP - I would take the fee.... But not if it is going to cause an rift between you and your brother.
As you suggested - it might be your SIL that is prodding the questions... BTDT.
My sister was trustee for my parents estate and my brothers (lack of) estate. I helped where I could - and she outsourced stuff like tax filings. She took a fee and I'm ok with that. Money is NOT worth losing family over.
We're in process of updating our trust. I'll make sure there is direction for the trustee to take a fee while managing the trust after (both of our) deaths.
OP - I would take the fee.... But not if it is going to cause an rift between you and your brother.
As you suggested - it might be your SIL that is prodding the questions... BTDT.
My wife is nearing the end of her Executor responsibilities for her Mom's estate. She also was the Durable Power of Attorney for over three years while her Mom suffered from Dementia and was in two, different Assisted Living facilities. She did the majority of the work emptying and selling two houses, both completely full with a lifetime of stuff.
She refuses to take a fee, although legally entitled to it. Her brother, who did virtually nothing, encouraged her to take around $7,000. Her sister has been mostly silent on the issue, which we take to mean that she doesn't think she should. There have been subtle comments and opportunities passed.
My wife's position is to avoid any further family conflict. There have been some distribution issues already, and a couple of conflicts in the DPOA days that could have severed family ties. Her Father and Brother never spoke again after their aunt and mom's estates were settled. She has already pocketed a good sum from the estate, so an extra $7,000 or so is not worth it for her with the potential family rift and her legacy with our daughter and her cousins.
On my side, I will be executor. I plan on taking a fee. Of course, I could change my mind, or someone could change it for me
I was executor of my DF's $700k estate back in 2001. I decided to forego the statutory fees due me in the State of California. There were a house and car and lots of personal items to deal with (my least favorite was selling the guns) but in the end it really wasn't that much work. We (me, brother, sister) were listed as each receiving 1/3 of the inheritance, and that's what we ended up with. I did pay out-of-pocket expenses from the estate bank account, though.
rick55
Recycles dryer sheets
Executor fee
My sister & I were co executors in my mothers will, but she passed before my mom. So I was executor, and my niece and I were the beneficiaries.
I took care of paying her final bills, cleaning out the house, putting it on the market and selling it, so I decided to give myself the executor fee. My neice got half the estate as well as half of moms IRA. I gave some of my inheritance to my sons. I also gave my niece moms car, because she needed reliable wheels to go to school.
She will be very well off, and probably retire early.
Rick
My sister & I were co executors in my mothers will, but she passed before my mom. So I was executor, and my niece and I were the beneficiaries.
I took care of paying her final bills, cleaning out the house, putting it on the market and selling it, so I decided to give myself the executor fee. My neice got half the estate as well as half of moms IRA. I gave some of my inheritance to my sons. I also gave my niece moms car, because she needed reliable wheels to go to school.
She will be very well off, and probably retire early.
Rick
I am the executor for my mother’s estate. I took sole care of both demented parents; their medical, legal, financial and social needs for almost a decade. I have 4 siblings who never lifted a finger. I have every intention of taking every dime of executor fees allowed by law.
I used almost a decade of vacation time taking care of them. I was happy to do it because they were great parents but that is time I lost with my young son that I will never get back. The stress of the caretaking while working full time and taking care of 2 houses, etc. almost killed me....
I will give the entire executor fee to my son to buy a car to help make up for the decade of missed vacations and other time I lost with him while he was growing up and I was taking care of my parents needs.
You need to look at all of the facts and circumstances when deciding.
I used almost a decade of vacation time taking care of them. I was happy to do it because they were great parents but that is time I lost with my young son that I will never get back. The stress of the caretaking while working full time and taking care of 2 houses, etc. almost killed me....
I will give the entire executor fee to my son to buy a car to help make up for the decade of missed vacations and other time I lost with him while he was growing up and I was taking care of my parents needs.
You need to look at all of the facts and circumstances when deciding.
denstl
Dryer sheet aficionado
I was executor for both my fathers and my brothers estates. Both out of state so not only a bit of a hassle, but for my brothers it required me to travel back to his home state a number of times. I did not expect, nor receive executor fees. I am sure I could have if I wanted to. But as both estates were being distributed to myself and my siblings, I did not want to take that fee. Just me and my approach. Do what you feel is right.
You DF left you $100,000 - for too many people that is an unimaginable sum - be grateful.
I wouldn’t take the fee the money would be tainted.
But If I were your sibling I wouldn’t care if you did.
I waved the entire inheritance from my dad’s (truthfully not huge $) estate because as my brother had a greater need.
Money and inheritances can be an ugly thing don’t let it be.
I wouldn’t take the fee the money would be tainted.
But If I were your sibling I wouldn’t care if you did.
I waved the entire inheritance from my dad’s (truthfully not huge $) estate because as my brother had a greater need.
Money and inheritances can be an ugly thing don’t let it be.
Gill
Recycles dryer sheets
Don’t forget that there may be an income tax deduction available to either the estate or the beneficiaries for the executor’s fee paid.
My DH was both executor and successor trustee for his Dad's estate. Both allowed compensation for him. The estate was large and complicated and took a year to settle. He did take reimbursement for 1 flight and 1 car rental when he had to go to his Dad's house to ready it and its contents for sale and distribution to family members.
He felt it was an honor that his Dad entrusted him to do this and did not feel he should take money for doing so. YMMV
He felt it was an honor that his Dad entrusted him to do this and did not feel he should take money for doing so. YMMV
Gill
Recycles dryer sheets
There is another interesting twist to this fee situation. When you are entitled to a fee as executor and do not make a timely waiver of said fee the IRS can treat it as being taxable to meet you in spite of you never receiving it.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
That's warped... especially for a cash basis taxpayer.
ychuck46
Recycles dryer sheets
Another Perspective
At this point in life I have a tolerable relationship with three of my siblings, and a totally intolerable one with a sister (we haven't spoken in years). I was the executor of my Mom's estate and did 100% of the work, including traveling back to the state she passed in (NY) from my current home in TN. My siblings are the kind that would think I cheated them no matter what, even though I kept detailed records of all work on the estate, kept them up to date regularly on assets and liabilities, and sent out regular checks as the assets were being liquidated. A lawyer asked me once in passing - "Will your siblings always think you cheated them whether you took the fee or not? Then take it". I did, it caused heartburn for the sibs, and in many ways I am glad. One person's take.
At this point in life I have a tolerable relationship with three of my siblings, and a totally intolerable one with a sister (we haven't spoken in years). I was the executor of my Mom's estate and did 100% of the work, including traveling back to the state she passed in (NY) from my current home in TN. My siblings are the kind that would think I cheated them no matter what, even though I kept detailed records of all work on the estate, kept them up to date regularly on assets and liabilities, and sent out regular checks as the assets were being liquidated. A lawyer asked me once in passing - "Will your siblings always think you cheated them whether you took the fee or not? Then take it". I did, it caused heartburn for the sibs, and in many ways I am glad. One person's take.
Not saying I agree with this, but the Probate Court did ask my wife if she was taking the fee.
Retired Expat
Full time employment: Posting here.
My father's estate was fairly large and complicated. My two sisters who still live near where my father did, were supposed to co-exec but ultimately couldn't work together so it fell to me. On top of that I had to renovate his property as a rental when he moved to assisted living. Oh and I live many thousands of mile away.
Most importantly I was able to collect all of my expenses and interest on all the money that I had to advance to my father in his last years. "property rich but cash poor". So I was made whole for the most part. The intangibles of having to travel there and back, Trains, planes and automobiles, meals etc makes capturing all expenses impossible so I added a number that I thought was reasonable and made it clear to my siblings that they can accept the accounting as I prepared it with my substantially reduced fee from what I was entitled by statute. Or they could contest it, I would claim the full fee and the lawyers would take another big bite and they would get far less. Everyone got really quiet and all I heard after that were thank you's!
Most importantly I was able to collect all of my expenses and interest on all the money that I had to advance to my father in his last years. "property rich but cash poor". So I was made whole for the most part. The intangibles of having to travel there and back, Trains, planes and automobiles, meals etc makes capturing all expenses impossible so I added a number that I thought was reasonable and made it clear to my siblings that they can accept the accounting as I prepared it with my substantially reduced fee from what I was entitled by statute. Or they could contest it, I would claim the full fee and the lawyers would take another big bite and they would get far less. Everyone got really quiet and all I heard after that were thank you's!
freedomatlast
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Well, I can tell you what happened in my case.
I live on one side of the country close to where my mother lived, and my sister lived on the other side of the country. She rarely visited. I handled every aspect of caring for my mother as she got older, and was glad to do it. Doctor and hospital visits, home maintenance, car maintenance, snow removal, landscaping, appointments, shopping, ultimately nursing home selection and placement, I was there every step of the way.
After my mother's death I was the Executor. Every room of the house was packed with stuff, mostly of very little monetary value . I went through it all. Little by little I got it all done, over the course of a year. Almost every weeknight, every weekend, that was my second job, It was exhausting.
My sister came by one time and filled a POD with all the stuff she wanted and anything of value such as silver sets, etc. I was happy to let her have what she wanted and didn't dispute anything.
After a year of almost every night after work and every weekend.....cleaning out the house, sorting through papers, disposing of all the junk, then getting the house ready for sale.....cleaning, ripping out old carpet, installing hardwood, painting, landscaping you name it, the house was sold.
After all this, the attorney recommended I take a small executor's fee knowing all of the time and work I spend doing everything I could myself, with no help, to save the estate money.
Well, when my sister got the paperwork and saw the executors fee, she went off the deep end. I could never have guessed she would react this way. In order to try to save the relationship, I agreed to drop the fee, but she made settling the estate a nightmare from that point on, refusing to sign papers, just being difficult every step of the way.
I did all the work, she got handed a check, and to this day, she rarely communicates with me.
If I had to do it over again, I would have hired someone to do all the junk clearing, scrubbing, cleaning, paining, ripping out carpets, sprucing up the house etc, and let the estate pay for it all and be done with it.
My point is it's difficult to know how others may react when taking the fee and when money is involved, people's character can change very quickly.
I live on one side of the country close to where my mother lived, and my sister lived on the other side of the country. She rarely visited. I handled every aspect of caring for my mother as she got older, and was glad to do it. Doctor and hospital visits, home maintenance, car maintenance, snow removal, landscaping, appointments, shopping, ultimately nursing home selection and placement, I was there every step of the way.
After my mother's death I was the Executor. Every room of the house was packed with stuff, mostly of very little monetary value . I went through it all. Little by little I got it all done, over the course of a year. Almost every weeknight, every weekend, that was my second job, It was exhausting.
My sister came by one time and filled a POD with all the stuff she wanted and anything of value such as silver sets, etc. I was happy to let her have what she wanted and didn't dispute anything.
After a year of almost every night after work and every weekend.....cleaning out the house, sorting through papers, disposing of all the junk, then getting the house ready for sale.....cleaning, ripping out old carpet, installing hardwood, painting, landscaping you name it, the house was sold.
After all this, the attorney recommended I take a small executor's fee knowing all of the time and work I spend doing everything I could myself, with no help, to save the estate money.
Well, when my sister got the paperwork and saw the executors fee, she went off the deep end. I could never have guessed she would react this way. In order to try to save the relationship, I agreed to drop the fee, but she made settling the estate a nightmare from that point on, refusing to sign papers, just being difficult every step of the way.
I did all the work, she got handed a check, and to this day, she rarely communicates with me.
If I had to do it over again, I would have hired someone to do all the junk clearing, scrubbing, cleaning, paining, ripping out carpets, sprucing up the house etc, and let the estate pay for it all and be done with it.
My point is it's difficult to know how others may react when taking the fee and when money is involved, people's character can change very quickly.
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pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
^^^^ Seems the epitome of the saying that no good deed goes unpunished.
Retired Expat
Full time employment: Posting here.
Dear Freedomatlast, I feel for you. Inheritance issues, settling estate, all come at the worst time when you should be grieving and perhaps overly emotional.
I could see in my own situation that the relationships were deteriorating and that I was going to be stuck with all the work. That is why I worked it out with the Attorney that they could all accept the settlement I was offering or they could all get less and we could litigate the fee. In my case the fee could have been quite large but I asked for only 20%. Even my siblings who never helped, was not willing to roll the dice on losing the rest of the fee and the legal costs as the estate pays to defend the executor (unless there is fraud or negligence). So I drew a line in the sand, knowing that relationships could be damaged forever but fighting about it would destroy them anyway. In the end I am sure it helped put it all behind us much quicker.
I could see in my own situation that the relationships were deteriorating and that I was going to be stuck with all the work. That is why I worked it out with the Attorney that they could all accept the settlement I was offering or they could all get less and we could litigate the fee. In my case the fee could have been quite large but I asked for only 20%. Even my siblings who never helped, was not willing to roll the dice on losing the rest of the fee and the legal costs as the estate pays to defend the executor (unless there is fraud or negligence). So I drew a line in the sand, knowing that relationships could be damaged forever but fighting about it would destroy them anyway. In the end I am sure it helped put it all behind us much quicker.
