family member asking for money - domestic violence issue :-(((

[simple girl]

Well, seems like our lives have been going along fantastic and then "whammo" - hit with a huge family issue.

A relative is asking for money for 3 months of rent. She was beat up by her husband in front of her children on Saturday. He threatened to kill the entire family. He was arrested but his mother posted bond so he is out. She has filed a protection order.

She is in school full-time and has 3 months left until she graduates and can start working. She was being supported financially by her husband, so obviously she is in major financial distress. No one else in the family has money (and/or is willing to give it) so she has come to us. We have loaned her money in the past ($650), and she did pay us back. We love her and the kids and are very worried about their safety.

The issue for us isn't the money. It's her safety. We want her to go to a shelter, but she refuses to do that. Wants to keep life as "normal" as possible for the kids. I've sent her tons of links to domestic violence centers and educated her on the huge risk she is taking with their lives. I don't think she is going to change her mind.

I know I can't make her do this, but to be honest, I was hoping if we didn't give her the rent money she'd be forced to go to a safe house. I doubt that is going to work. I'm afraid if we do give her the money, she is just going to stay in the same dysfunctional cycle, maybe take him back (this happened about a year ago - he stopped drinking - and now has started again). Gah. You know the drill. I guess I'm also feeling like if we give her the money and support her staying there, and then something bad happens we will always question ourselves for not taking a hard line. I don't know. We are so confused as to how to approach this. I know there are some fine people on this board, who've been through lots in life, so I'm looking for some wisdom. DH is just as confused as me as to what we should do.

 

[Texas Proud]

Did she change the locks and kick out the husband?

Does husband have any money?

Does she plan to get a divorce?

Are the kids his? (IOW will he have to pay child support?)

How is she related to YOU (I would not help out a cousin or even a niece that I have not seen in 10 to 30 years... so it matters IMO)


I would suggest that she file for divorce right away and get support payments from him.

I am not much use on the personal side..... but sorry to hear about this...

 

[Keim]

I'd call a shelter and see what recommendations they have on dealing with this. This is new to you, not to them.

 

[bbbamI]

I'd call a shelter and see what recommendations they have on dealing with this. This is new to you, not to them.

Absolutely.

The only experience of working with battered women I have is measuring bruises and taking photos at the police station.

Don't let this eat you up simple girl...speak to someone at a shelter.

 

[simple girl]

Did she change the locks and kick out the husband?

Does husband have any money?

Does she plan to get a divorce?

Are the kids his? (IOW will he have to pay child support?)

How is she related to YOU (I would not help out a cousin or even a niece that I have not seen in 10 to 30 years... so it matters IMO)


I would suggest that she file for divorce right away and get support payments from him.

I am not much use on the personal side..... but sorry to hear about this...

The husband is kicked out; not sure if she changed the locks, but I advised her to do so (sent her a full safety plan from the National Domestic Violence Center).

I doubt the husband has money. She is getting legal help and has a hearing soon to get child support set up. 2 of the kids are his.

She is my neice-in-law. We are close to her. Her parents are very dysfunctional, and DH has been a big emotional support for her throughout the years. He's more like a big brother to her.

Good news - she just wrote me back, and said she is going to call one of the centers I linked to her. Keeping my fingers crossed...

 

[Walt34]

We want her to go to a shelter, but she refuses to do that. Wants to keep life as "normal" as possible for the kids. I've sent her tons of links to domestic violence centers and educated her on the huge risk she is taking with their lives. I don't think she is going to change her mind.

That right there is a huge problem. Things are going to change and she must recognize and adapt to that. The fact that the same thing happened a year ago does not bode well for her future unless she decides that it has to change permanently.

That said, if she is willing to make the changes necessary to keep herself and the kids safe then I'd offer help. But she must answer the question "What are you planning to do to keep this from happening again?"

Agreed on calling a shelter and ask their opinion. They deal with these issues every day. There is a cycle to these relationship issues and they know what has to happen to stop it.

 

[simple girl]

I'd call a shelter and see what recommendations they have on dealing with this. This is new to you, not to them.

Absolutely.

The only experience of working with battered women I have is measuring bruises and taking photos at the police station.

Don't let this eat you up simple girl...speak to someone at a shelter.

Thanks guys. I did call a shelter. They were the ones who told me that I needed to give her the safety plan info and info on statistics of women getting murdered if they stay in such situations. They said there really is nothing more I can do to convince her. Seems like this info has worked to at least get her to call and find out more. That is a big relief in and of itself.

 

[simple girl]

That said, if she is willing to make the changes necessary to keep herself and the kids safe then I'd offer help. But she must answer the question "What are you planning to do to keep this from happening again?"

Very good insight. Thank you.

 

[Purron]

I have no experience or advice to offer but just want to convey my sympathy for all of you going through this dreadful situation and hopes for a good outcome. Your niece-in-law is lucky to have you and your DH in her life.

 

[Brat]

I would offer to help her get started with a NEW life so long as she takes the advise of the women's shelter staff and protects herself and the children. I gather that she has custody of her child by another father, if there is any risk to that child the father (or father's family) could (and should) take custodial action.

If she doesn't protect herself the abusive husband could kill or seriously injure her, the children would be a whole lot more worse off than they would be in a shelter.

Give her money to stay in school but she should also tell the school security staff of her circumstances. They need to know.

Give her money for an attorney and a therapist who works with battered women.

Then discuss rent.

BTW, this issue is not limited to low income families.

 

[simple girl]

I would offer to help her get started with a NEW life so long as she takes the advise of the women's shelter staff and protects herself and the children. I gather that she has custody of her child by another father, if there is any risk to that child the father (or father's family) could (and should) take custodial action.

If she doesn't protect herself the abusive husband could kill or seriously injure her, the children would be a whole lot more worse off than they would be in a shelter.

Give her money to stay in school but she should also tell the school security staff of her circumstances. They need to know.

Give her money for an attorney and a therapist who works with battered women.

Then discuss rent.

BTW, this issue is not limited to low income families.

Excellent points. I am taking notes for when we call and talk to her. Thank you as well.

 

[Moemg]

Sorry to hear about your problem but you seem to be handling it well . I would definetely give her money to stay safe but not if she was going right back into the situation.

 

[Alan]

So sorry to hear about this latest problem with your niece-in-law. I don't have anything to add to the good advice being given here. As others have said, if you can link any financial support with actions on her side then it will be a hand up rather than a hand out.

I think your niece is very lucky to have your support and it's good to hear that you were paid back the last time you helped her out financially.

 

[simple girl]

So sorry to hear about this latest problem with your niece-in-law. I don't have anything to add to the good advice being given here. As others have said, if you can link any financial support with actions on her side then it will be a hand up rather than a hand out.

I think your niece is very lucky to have your support and it's good to hear that you were paid back the last time you helped her out financially.

Thanks so much Alan. (BTW, this is a different niece than the last problem I posted with my other niece. I could do with a bit less drama from both sides of our families!)

 

[Alan]

Thanks so much Alan. (BTW, this is a different niece than the last problem I posted with my other niece. I could do with a bit less drama from both sides of our families!)

oops, sorry about that.

Good luck going forward with this.

 

[Sarah in SC]

SG, one question that comes to mind is this: can she afford the rent on the place by herself in 3 months when your support presumably ends? This is doubtful, so she really should move now, into the shelter or wherever, so that once the crisis time is over, she can start again in a new place to which he has no "claim".

My friend who just left her abusive husband had to leave, move out of the house, move in with a friend, in order to break free of him. She and her child are now going to move into an apartment of their own, now that they built up a bit of a cushion from staying with the friend and saving money.

I think she needs the support and counseling she and the children could receive through a shelter as well. That is better than her sitting at home and blaming herself for the marriage not working (which my friend, who is so smart in other ways, is still doing).

Best to you in a tough situation.

 

[simple girl]

SG, one question that comes to mind is this: can she afford the rent on the place by herself in 3 months when your support presumably ends? This is doubtful, so she really should move now, into the shelter or wherever, so that once the crisis time is over, she can start again in a new place to which he has no "claim".

That is another excellent point to bring up in our conversation. It was a concern I had, but my head is all over the place today, and I forgot about it. I knew this group would help me try to remain clear headed and more objective. Thank you!!!!

In answer to this question, I have my doubts...the rent is $750/mo. I don't know what she'll be making upon getting out of school - but it won't be big bucks - it's cosmetology school. I'm really worried she's not gonna be able to do this on her own...who knows if/when she'll get child support. The program I had her call has a transitional program, where they help support the person with rent monies, etc. after they leave the shelter. Unfortunately, my niece told me she was told there is a waiting list for the program.

My friend who just left her abusive husband had to leave, move out of the house, move in with a friend, in order to break free of him. She and her child are now going to move into an apartment of their own, now that they built up a bit of a cushion from staying with the friend and saving money.

I think she needs the support and counseling she and the children could receive through a shelter as well. That is better than her sitting at home and blaming herself for the marriage not working (which my friend, who is so smart in other ways, is still doing).

Best to you in a tough situation.

She said she is all for the counseling for her and the kids. This gives me hope, for sure. They definitely need it.

 

[kumquat]

You can offer her two kinds of help: financial and emotional support. I'd be hesitant to link them.

It may be that without some financial help she can't 'dump the jerk'. It may seem easier to her to accept life as it has been rather than deal with the financial (and emotional) trials of going it alone.

Of course you should encourage her to face life as it is and think of how it could be. That may be easier if she has fewer financial worries.

To link financial help with her following your advice, however, has elements of bribery or blackmail. Both of these may come back to haunt your relationship. If she was someone near and dear to me, I'd just do what I could, I'd even consider (at least to me) any financial help a gift and not a loan, but it really wouldn't hurt me financially. That way if she can't repay it won't damage the relationship.

As always, YMMV. I wish you all the best, whatever you decide.

 

[simple girl]

You can offer her two kinds of help: financial and emotional support. I'd be hesitant to link them.

It may be that without some financial help she can't 'dump the jerk'. It may seem easier to her to accept life as it has been rather than deal with the financial (and emotional) trials of going it alone.

Of course you should encourage her to face life as it is and think of how it could be. That may be easier if she has fewer financial worries.

To link financial help with her following your advice, however, has elements of bribery or blackmail. Both of these may come back to haunt your relationship. If she was someone near and dear to me, I'd just do what I could, I'd even consider (at least to me) any financial help a gift and not a loan, but it really wouldn't hurt me financially. That way if she can't repay it won't damage the relationship.

As always, YMMV. I wish you all the best, whatever you decide.

Thank you for your perspective. Sage advice.

 

[TromboneAl]

If she is still in the house, can you pay for and arrange to have a locksmith go and change the locks today?

Good luck with this!

 

[obgyn65]

Please contact Children Protective Services if the children are being abused or neglected.

He threatened to kill the entire family. He was arrested but his mother posted bond so he is out.

 

[Amethyst]

Prediction: Husband will be back, claiming he just "lost his temper and said things he shouldn't say and didn't mean" and loves her & kids & wants them all back. Poor girl, she'll be tempted, too. It's grim out there on your own.

In your place, if I could afford to [ER version of "afford" - even though you have money, you are protecting it for your ER goals], I'd help her and kids. Hoping, but not expecting, to get the money back.

As others said, a plan for the future must be part of any money discussion. It's reasonable to ask a grown-up, even a scared one, to come up with a plan for "what happens after 3 months." I would also say "You know this is the last time we can help with money, but we're always there for you in other ways."

Neither you nor anybody can control her response, when he shows up with the big I'm-sorry puppy-dog eyes. But if she has a plan, knows you support the plan and will help her carry it out, and knows the $$ has come to an end, she may just be able to break free. I hope "cosmetology" includes hair-cutting, since barbers can get jobs, but "cosmeticists" and "aestheticians" probably have a hard time when the economy's down.

Best of luck to everyone involved in this all too common situation.

Amethyst

Please contact Children Protective Services if the children are being abused or neglected.

 

[simple girl]

Update:

Well we spent an hour and a half on the phone last night with our niece discussing this issue and her plan for the future. I had made a list of questions/issues to discuss based upon comments here and other research I had done throughout the day.

First we tried to assess what degree of danger she may be in, based upon these top 5 risk factors: Domestic Violence Homicide Risk Assessment (USDOJ Scale). No, he's never used a weapon on her; yes, he threatened to kill the entire family; yes, he has tried to strangle her in the past; yes, he is constantly jealous and wants to know what she is doing all the time; and, well, we didn't ask her the last question since it is so personal, and we were pretty overwhelmed with additional details she told us about being spit on and him putting a cigarette out on her. She also told us about some terrible verbal abuse, including calling her things like a stupid b*tch in front of the kids. What a horrible, horrible ordeal she has been through. Oh, and yes, he does have access to a gun (a 22 rifle) at his mom's house, where he is staying. So yes, I would say the danger level is pretty high - we impressed that upon her again and again so that she would take safety measures seriously.

Next, we talked about her safety plan. First and foremost, we wanted her of course to go to a shelter, but as you know she is reluctant to do so (actually has gone in the past and had a negative experience), PLUS, the shelter is full and has a waiting list. They told her the only way they could actually take her in is if he breaks the protection order, and she has to call the police.

So, looks like for now at least she is staying at their home. She said he does not have any keys (police took him away with nothing), but we are concerned he may have stashed a copy somewhere at his mother's. We have arranged to have her other uncle who lives locally to change out the locks. She has pepper spray and keeps it with her at all times. We strongly advised her to tell her school about the protection order and give them a picture of him with instructions to call 911 if he shows up there. The same goes for anyone she leaves her children with.

Next we talked about her recovery plan. She has obtained legal assistance from the women's center for her hearing next week about custody and child support. She is on the waiting list to get started with counseling for herself and the kids and also for possible transitional housing assistance. She of course firmly states she will not take him back when he comes crawling back apologizing...she was pretty convincing, but we know the statistics on this - only time will tell, and all we can do is hope. We will be making sure she follows up on the counseling for all. The kids, as you would expect, are pretty shaken up.

We asked her about her plan after the 3 months of school is up. She said she already has a job offer (yes, she does cut hair). Her hourly rate will of course be low, but she says that they made it on the same salary from her "x" over the past two years so she feels she can do it. "It's tight, but I've always lived tight, and I know how to do it." They only have the basics, no cable or internet, etc. and her car is paid for. If she gets her child support, of course that will help significantly. For the next 3 months, she can get by if we take care of her rent, since she has a few hundred dollars of school loans coming in, plus she was able to get $600 in food stamps/month to feed the kids. It was a huge relief to hear this was taken care of.

So, we are taking care of the rent but of course will be following the situation closely to make sure she gets that counseling. We are very, very worried for her safety, but at this point it doesn't look like there any other feasible options.

Thanks all for the feedback and support. We are both exhausted dealing with this. I will post any major developments.

 

[Sarah in SC]

You two are good folks, SG. She is in a truly tough spot and it is so hard to get any clarity in a crisis like that. Your ability to cut through the chaos is incredibly valuable to her, even if she can't articulate it.

 

[Alan]

Great work SG, fingers crossed that the husband stays away as ordered.