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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 12:01 AM   #81
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by youbet
Your position is obvious.* I questioned why you said you were struggling with "figuring out the ranking between these two."* You clearly have made your decision on the ranking.


I give up. You obviously didn't read what I posted. You believe whatever you want to believe and ignore the facts. That makes it easy to judge people and issues.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 01:35 AM   #82
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Well, I am happy you are happy about having gone to war.* Bully for you.* Doesn't make a whit of difference, though.* I still want my $937 back (US per capita military spending in latest available figures).
Well where do I begin?*

First of all, when did I ever say I was "Happy" to go to war?* I was only providing you with a response to your out-of-line assumptions.* Let me go ahead and post that assumtion again.
Quote:
You know, every time I read somehing like this, I just get this feeling that the person writing it is only too willing to sacrifice other people, just so long as they get to keep their comfy little life tgether as it suits them.
*

My being formerly in the military, in the first gulf war, and my brother being in the military right now kinda proves your assumptions wrong.* I have a lot to lose, as it stands, having family currently in the service.*

The only thing that bothers me, is that we did not get to finish the job the first time we were over there.* Now my brother has to put his life on the line for a job that my generation could have handled.* This cycle will continue as long as we sit back and do nothing.* I don't want this for my children or any future generations.

I expected a juvenile response from you.* I never was mean or derrogatory to you, we were simply having a debate.* But it's a typical response from a liberal.* When some liberals (like you) get into a debate and cannot justify their argument, they start name calling and insulting behavior.* Very childish!!* *

You were way out of line and extremely insensitive about me and my brothers military service.* You have offended my family and all of the past and present service families with your harsh comments.* You made it personal.* Instead of continuing the debate, you basically bashed all of us for our service.* Thanks a lot!!!* I hope you feel good about yourself when you are enjoying all of the freedoms afforded to you by past and present generations of veterans, who gave there LIVES for you.* Without them, there is no Early Retirement for you.* But by all means, enjoy all of your spoils and continue to be the way that you are.* Thats what we fight for.* So selfish people like you can have an opinion.* *However uneducated that opinion may sound.*

But I'm so glad you think veterans service never made a "whit of difference".* It just shows us all the true quality of your character.* Why don't you just start shouting "baby killer" every time you see a person in uniform.

Quote:
Brewer, you are great about finance, but out of your depth on foreign policy. Also, you are unnecessarily hostile to those who have other opinions.
Thats ok HA.* I'm taking it in stride.* I expect this kind of reply from someone whos only education on politics and the world is viewing "Farenhiet 911" and idolizes people like Michael Moore.*

If you can't come up with a meaningful debate, without name calling or offensive behavior, you are better off not to speak for your cause Brewer.* It does them an extreme disservice and just makes people fighting for your cause look bad.*

But go ahead my man, run your mouth some more, shout it loud from the mountain top to everyone who will hear you, and grab all the people like you and march the streets spewing your hatred.* It will all but assure defeat for your side of the political spectrum.

"BULLY" for me!!!** *
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 06:33 AM   #83
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by gtmeouttahere
But you're still willing to take the first punch for us? You do know how many lives that would cost right?
I'm not "willing" to take the first punch, any more than you are "willing" to see innocents die in war. In a rough world, sometimes bad things happen. And if I somehow knew with certainty that that first punch was coming, then, and only then, could I see taking pre-emptive action. But there is no such certainty in the current situation.

Bpp
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 06:52 AM   #84
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by bpp
I'm not "willing" to take the first punch, any more than you are "willing" to see innocents die in war.* In a rough world, sometimes bad things happen.* And if I somehow knew with certainty that that first punch was coming, then, and only then, could I see taking pre-emptive action.* But there is no such certainty in the current situation.

Bpp
I see your point and I don't necessarily disagree. I think we sit somewhat on the same side. I just worry that if we don't take SOME kind of action soon, it may be too late. Just not sure I want to take that chance. We've been fooled before into thinking all was well.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 07:30 AM   #85
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

Well I for one appreciate your service gtmeouttahere. Like Buckley, I understand that there are some obvious dangers to our republic and way of life, but I believe the dangers are muslim extremism and liberal pacifism. That's a deadly combination.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 08:06 AM   #86
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

Well - in keeping with the theme of this thread.

I favor the big dog poop theory. Go poop on the other guys lawn before he sneaks in his pesty little dog to poop on yours.

Other than that - my old Finn Grandmother(Mom's side) - explained to me - 'you were born a Democrat, you'll die a Democrat! If you vote Republican - your hand will fall off.'

Interestingly - the half of my family that votes the 'other way' still have all their hands. Go figure.

Still haven't read Friedman's 'The World is Flat.'

Whatever it takes to keep terriost's out of Kansas City!

heh heh heh heh heh - at least old age won't be boring.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 10:04 AM   #87
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

Quoting one of the greatest philosphers of our time, Dean Martin. (Circa 1965).

"Show business, and real life in general, are put up with, but Golf is my religeon."

ReWahoo, and Eagle43: Sacramento at San Antonio today.
On paper , the Spurs should be a shoo-in, but the Kings, since picking up Artest about 30 games ago are a totally different club.

Got a feeling! (Not strong enough to make another bet with ReWahoo though).

Oh, before I forget, sorry for trying to break up the "love-fest" you boys are having on this thread. So sue me. 8)

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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 10:19 AM   #88
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

gt, be as self-righteous as you like. The military is nothing but a pox on the world, plain and simple. Having said that, I think the way our gummint has treated veterans over the years is shameful.

Its clear that we are not likely to have a civil discussion on the matter, so why don't we let it be?
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 10:33 AM   #89
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by gtmeouttahere
I see your point and I don't necessarily disagree.* I think we sit somewhat on the same side.* I just worry that if we don't take SOME kind of action soon, it may be too late.* Just not sure I want to take that chance.* We've been fooled before into thinking all was well.
Some kind of action.

Exactly.

* It is not required that the action be military, is it?* Maybe the people responsible for controlling the greatest and most powerful nation on the planet should try to determine why the "terrorists" and some other more well recognized and organized groups object so strongly to the behavior of these United States.* Maybe the most constructive "action" wil be to modify the objectionable behavior.* Be a better citizen of the world and less of a bully.* To "speak Softly and carry a big stick" is a respectable foreign policy.* Threatening someone with a big stick, I think, is not.

Submitted respectfully to all.

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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 11:17 AM   #90
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Updated 4/22/2006 10:48 AM ET
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran's envoy to the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency said Saturday the Islamic republic had reached a "basic deal" with the Kremlin to form a joint uranium enrichment venture on Russian territory, state-run television reported.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...-uranium_x.htm

Fan, Part II. So, no enrichment in Iran. Guess the world can breathe a sigh of relief.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 11:20 AM   #91
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

How far does pacifist zeal go? The military is nothing more than one of the tools a government’s body has to carry out its policy. When you look at government, the central state government has a military, as government gets smaller; we call its military a ‘Police force’. Is there really any difference in your local police and the military? Local governments use their police force much like the federal government uses its military with respect to other nations. In the case of the local government, they are attempting to keep the ‘bad guys’ in your neighborhood from inflecting harm on you are your family. The federal government is out to keep the ‘bad guys’ in this case Iran, from doing harm to us and our families. So, do we negotiate with the murder, thief, or drunk driver? Do we negotiate with a country that has called for our, and our friends destruction, and is now trying to get the weapons to do it? Do away with the “pox on society”, and we will be in the position of asking the thief not to steal.

As I write this, a difference in the two forces does come to mind. With the thief, the local police do not seem to have the right to stop them before they attempt to steal.
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Old 04-22-2006, 11:24 AM   #92
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Is there really any difference in your local police and the military?
There is a HUGE difference. Local police forces are set up and trained to maintain order and enforce laws. National military forces are set up to invade and kill people. The latter is a fundamentally illegitimate function of the state.

But again, it is unlikely we will come to any agreement on this subject, so let's agree to disagree.
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 11:44 AM   #93
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

So, what do you call it when the police are trained to kick the door in and kill someone?
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Old 04-22-2006, 11:47 AM   #94
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So, what do you call it when the police are trained to kick the door in and kill someone?
Generally speaking, I call it rare, at least in a civilized nation.
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Old 04-22-2006, 12:34 PM   #95
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

Gonna kill this thread by saying this, but I will anyway. One of Hitler's first moves was to transfer police/local security forces out of their home districts to one's far away. The idea was to prevent any emotional quandry's when they were given orders to arrest and ship off the local Jews/Gypsies/Communists to "labor" camps. If a police officer did this in his own neighborhood, it would be possible he'd balk because he'd say, "they're not bad guys, that's the Markowitzes who's kids play with my kids!". You have to dehumanize people before you can kill them. In that way, Police forces are inherintly less tyranical because they are part of the community. Soldiers are given all sorts of encouragement to pump themselves up and dehumanize, back in the day it was drums and bugils, today it's heavy metal pumped through your tank's intercom system.

You know all those cases of Police brutality you see on T.V.? Rodney King? I believe part of the problem there was Police officers who weren't members of that community.
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:52 PM   #96
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

"Pacifist zeal" comes as often from the right as the left.*Democratic presidetns entered WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Bosnia--over many Republican obections. I think that tide started to turn with anti-Communism within the Republican Party--that was mroe or less the tipping point from isolationism to military intervention, with a little war profiteering to sweeten the pot. Basically, I think the Right tries to balance world domination, glorification of the military, capitalism for all against low taxes (especially for the wealthy), and liberals try to balance the kumbaya global village and relatively high taxes for equality against (expensive) freedom and liberty for all. Or something.
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Old 04-22-2006, 02:28 PM   #97
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
There is a HUGE difference.* Local police forces are set up and trained to maintain order and enforce laws.* National military forces are set up to invade and kill people.* The latter is a fundamentally illegitimate function of the state.
Well it is called the Department of DEFENSE although lately I must admit that perhaps it should be called the Department of Middle East Invasion to Secure our Sources of Foreign Oil Prevent Development of Weapons Mass Destruction.

I think that the problem is with the civilian leadership. Although the pages of history are full of the misuse of military power I don't think it is "law of nature" that the military will always be used
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Old 04-22-2006, 04:03 PM   #98
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by Jarhead*

ReWahoo, and Eagle43: Sacramento at San Antonio today.
On paper , the Spurs should be a shoo-in, but the Kings, since picking up Artest about 30 games ago are a totally different club.

Got a feeling! (Not strong enough to make another bet with ReWahoo though).
REWahoo,
Who agrees with Jarhead that the Spurs are not a shoo-in against the Kings.

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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 08:04 PM   #99
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
REWahoo,
Who agrees with Jarhead that the Spurs are not a shoo-in against the Kings.

ReWahoo: The Spurs crushed the Kings today, in one of the most lop-sided NBA games I've seen.

Might have mentioned this before, but my oldest daughter has worked for the Kings (Maloof Bros.) for the last 6 or 7 years.

Just talked to her a few minutes ago, and she still thinks the Kings are going to come back and win the series. (Nah, I didn't give her a hard time, don't want to give up next years court-side seats that she has access to)

Spurs in 5. Sacramento is tough on anybody at home, so I figure they can split the two games at home, and then it's "Sayonara on a Steel Guitar".

Jarhead, who has always enjoyed the time he's spent in Texas, (Especially the golf courses there), but is getting weary of being on the short end of the stick.




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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check
Old 04-22-2006, 08:47 PM   #100
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Re: Fan lined up?check.Excrement ready to hit? check

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Originally Posted by Jarhead*
Might have mentioned this before, but my oldest daughter has worked for the Kings (Maloof Bros.) for the last 6 or 7 years.

Just talked to her a few minutes ago, and she still thinks the Kings are going to come back and win the series. (Nah, I didn't give her a hard time, don't want to give up next years court-side seats that she has access to)
So you're saying you are willing to engage in "lies of omission" with your adult children to get good seats? Jarhead, I'm dissapointed...that my daughter doesn't work for the Spurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead*
Jarhead, who has always enjoyed the time he's spent in Texas, (Especially the golf courses there), but is getting weary of being on the short end of the stick.
Only a matter of time until the pendulum swings and your end of the stick lengthens. But I'm gonna enjoy it while I can.

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