Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2011, 12:21 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
A popular American syndicated columnist (I can never remember whether it was Ann Landers or Dear Abby) used to write that you can only be taken advantage of with your permission.

So while your nephew has decided to crash in your house, you've also decided to let your nephew crash in your house.

He's probably not planning to change his mind about crashing in your place. You should let him know that you've changed yours. Maybe you could start by taking him out for a cup of coffee away from the house on neutral ground. A short walk to the place would be great because then he could return home with you or walk back on his own later.

Then bring up "the talk":

"We've enjoyed your company, but we thought this was going to be a short-term visit. We don't think we're doing you any good at getting on with your own life by letting you stay here any longer. Instead of offering you living accommodations or charging rent, we'd like to get back to our regular routine and our quiet lives-- and we'd like to ease the stress that you must be feeling from our dog. We're happy to help you find another place to stay and give you a ride, but you should plan to be living somewhere else by the end of next week. Perhaps you should take a day to consider your options, maybe call my sister if that idea appeals to you, and let us know your plans in two days. If nothing else comes up then we're happy to book you a train ticket back to Madrid."

You could be polite and apologetic, but you have no reason to negotiate. You can be firm because it's your property and your life, not his.
Excellent advice!
__________________

__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-01-2011, 06:04 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Thanks everybody! I knew I could count on you.

I, more or less, guessed most of your suggestions.

1) Rules: Iīve instructed him on the basic ones to observe. But, for instance, I donīt really wanti him hanging around the house, which would be the case if I wake him up or want him home at reasonable hours. Mine is a smal house, in the sense thatīs confortable for 2 person who get along.

2) The dog: We canīt have it bite him as a result of an accident. Itīs quite old, pampered and starting to become irritable, scared and unaccostumed to changes. Our culture demands that we should have had the dog restrained. Nobody here would understand that a dog would condition my nephewīs mobility.

3) Chores: We have regular help that does almost everything, and everybody in the family knows it. To suddenly impose on him chores that we donīt do ourselves would give away true purpose of this attitude.

4) Talk: Here is where our culture plays the most part. We arenīt as pragmatic or candid as you. Any sensible talk would be inmediately construed/interpreted in the sense that we donīt want him with us. More so, bearing in mind that my sister would have him with -prima facie- no problems, there is an opinion that his stay in my house is the natural thing. Thatīs what family is for.... And, to put it mildly, his mother is a bit too touchy and susceptible. I donīwant to risk a confrontation with my brother.

5) Making his stay unconfortable: We have used a series of tricks, but he either adapts or doesnīt care. Itīs like dealing with an octopus: there is always a tentacle that clings.

The key -unsolvable- points are his unemployment and his girlfriend. More to the point: The real obstacle is the girlfriend, who is a student with at least 2 years left till she gets her law degree and not plannning to go anywhere....

So, for the near future, Weīll have to grin and bear it.
__________________

__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 06:24 AM   #23
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
Is your nephew staying here on a tourist visa or a longer term visa?
Vicente and his nephew are Spanish and live in Spain.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 06:31 AM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
It sounds like you've done the calculation: The family "discomfort" of having an honest talk with him exceeds the discomfort he's causing you. There are different kinds of discomfort--sometimes avoiding short term pain results in decisions that amount to accepting many times that amount of long term pain. Maybe that's preferable, more endurable, etc. And only you can tell just how "short term" the family repercussions would be if you had the talk. OTOH, I know that if I were in your shoes the resentment would build ("is he too dumb to see the imposition he's being, or too callous to care? Is there no end to this?!") until eventually some event will spark a (heated) discussion that ends badly. Maybe that's the result of our subconscious taking charge of issues left unaddressed by our conscious selves.

Anyway, a tough spot. As always, "people are the problem."

PS: Maybe it's time for some subtle but regular references in conversation to how long you and DW expected/expect his "visit" to last?
"Did you bring enough clothes? We figured you'd probably need enough for a weeklong stay, but things have gone on somewhat longer . . . "
"When we heard you were coming, we were so happy. We knew a week or two (revise to fit) together would give us a chance to catch up on family talk. "
" My dad always said he enjoyed having company, only after they left did he realize how much he treasured having his house back. He said visits of a few days were about right. What do you think?"

A steady drumbeat of "this is going on longer than we thought it would" will get the point across, maybe ease your stress ("okay, I've done what I'm willing to do about this for now"), and make it abundantly clear to him that he's imposing on your generosity while avoiding the overt confrontation that could rile the family. Eventually, assured that he's willfully imposing, you'll have a foundation for the next step, if needed ("as we've discussed before, your stay has gone on for a little longer than we'd expected. For our planning purposes, how long do you expect to stay--in days?")
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 06:41 AM   #25
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,571
Nords put it far more diplomatically than I would. Perhaps there are some major cultural/family dynamic differences going on, but here, the position would be "Hey, you're family, and we're glad to be able to help you out, but you are expected to help yourself out too. And we don't see you doing that."

That means if he doesn't have a job, then his "job" is job-hunting. Eight hours a day, every day, no days off. Pound the pavement, read the want ads, flip burgers or sweep floors if that's all that's available (hey, at least it gives a reference and established a work history). I would have little patience with whining that "It's too hard" or "That's beneath me". You take what you can get until you're qualified for something better. No transportation? Buy him a beater bicycle.

Agreed also with the observation that the only ones letting this happen are you and your wife. It's your house you set the rules. It is also up to you to enforce them.

Sometimes 20-year-olds need a (figurative) kick in the butt to get them started.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 11:28 PM   #26
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente solano View Post
4) Talk: Here is where our culture plays the most part. We arenīt as pragmatic or candid as you. Any sensible talk would be inmediately construed/interpreted in the sense that we donīt want him with us. More so, bearing in mind that my sister would have him with -prima facie- no problems, there is an opinion that his stay in my house is the natural thing. Thatīs what family is for.... And, to put it mildly, his mother is a bit too touchy and susceptible. I donīwant to risk a confrontation with my brother.
So, for the near future, Weīll have to grin and bear it.
My spouse was stationed in Rota for several years in the early 1980s, renting rooms from a family out in town, and I spent a considerable amount of leave time there. Maybe that resembles your town, maybe not.

You've asked for proposed solutions to your situation, but implementing any of them is up to you. I would suspect that your constraints on your choices are imposed more by your personal opinions regarding your family than by your culture, but that's just my limited observations. And anyway your opinion is what counts. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're absolutely right.

And if you never try to nudge him toward the exit, then you may spend the next 24 months wondering whether you should change your mind...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 05:57 AM   #27
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente solano View Post
Itīs quite old, pampered and starting to become irritable, scared and unaccostumed to changes.
Your dog and I are similar in nature ...
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 12:09 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente solano View Post
Thanks everybody! I knew I could count on you.

I, more or less, guessed most of your suggestions.

1) Rules: Iīve instructed him on the basic ones to observe. But, for instance, I donīt really wanti him hanging around the house, which would be the case if I wake him up or want him home at reasonable hours. Mine is a smal house, in the sense thatīs confortable for 2 person who get along.

2) The dog: We canīt have it bite him as a result of an accident. Itīs quite old, pampered and starting to become irritable, scared and unaccostumed to changes. Our culture demands that we should have had the dog restrained. Nobody here would understand that a dog would condition my nephewīs mobility.

3) Chores: We have regular help that does almost everything, and everybody in the family knows it. To suddenly impose on him chores that we donīt do ourselves would give away true purpose of this attitude.

4) Talk: Here is where our culture plays the most part. We arenīt as pragmatic or candid as you. Any sensible talk would be inmediately construed/interpreted in the sense that we donīt want him with us. More so, bearing in mind that my sister would have him with -prima facie- no problems, there is an opinion that his stay in my house is the natural thing. Thatīs what family is for.... And, to put it mildly, his mother is a bit too touchy and susceptible. I donīwant to risk a confrontation with my brother.

5) Making his stay unconfortable: We have used a series of tricks, but he either adapts or doesnīt care. Itīs like dealing with an octopus: there is always a tentacle that clings.

The key -unsolvable- points are his unemployment and his girlfriend. More to the point: The real obstacle is the girlfriend, who is a student with at least 2 years left till she gets her law degree and not plannning to go anywhere....

So, for the near future, Weīll have to grin and bear it.
Vicente, have you ever noticed that your entire life seems to be riddled with unsolvable problems?

You really should take Wahoo's suggestion and see a therapist, although you may drive her to drink.

Buck up buddy!

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 04:15 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,584
Here's a thought: Sell the house and tell the buyers the nephew conveys along with the washer and dryer.

__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,900
Vicente,

Why do you and your wife have to worry about what your other family members may think of you, but they don't seem to have to worry about what you think of their actions? This seems terribly unfair.

I suspect that people will agree, from China, to Africa, to Europe, to America, that it is never fair to saddle someone with an unasked-for, long-term guest.

Amethyst
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 05:17 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Vicente,

Why do you and your wife have to worry about what your other family members may think of you, but they don't seem to have to worry about what you think of their actions? This seems terribly unfair.

I suspect that people will agree, from China, to Africa, to Europe, to America, that it is never fair to saddle someone with an unasked-for, long-term guest.

Amethyst
Purrfect.
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:16 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purron View Post
Here's a thought: Sell the house and tell the buyers the nephew conveys along with the washer and dryer.

I was going to suggest that Vincente, his lovely wife and poor dog move in with the kid's parents - until the kid leaves their home. This genteel Spanish hospitality could be a double edged sword.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 06:45 PM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
Beryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
I'd set down some strict household rules, and send a copy of them in a friendly email to his parents as well as to him. Nobody could object to a long term guest being required to follow reasonable rules, IMO. And once he sees this list, he may be inspired to move out quickly. That way you won't have to kick him out.
Yep, yep, yep! I did the same to my 32 year old niece and she found alternative housing. . We are still on good terms. She wants to return and frequently asks but I remind her of the rules and she decides against it.

Also, she is allergic to my dogs and wanted ME to change things (keep them confined, off the furniture, etc.) but that wasn't happening.
__________________
Retired - Class of 2011
Beryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:16 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Vicente, have you ever noticed that your entire life seems to be riddled with unsolvable problems?

You really should take Wahoo's suggestion and see a therapist, although you may drive her to drink.

Buck up buddy!

Ha
Iīm too depressed to follow REWīs sensible advice and, anyway, I think I have a pretty accurate idea of what the therapist is going to tell me: 1) take up an absorbing hobby 2) light daily exercise 3) some relaxing meditation 4) do some kind of volunteering 5) stop pitying yourself 6) look around you and notice people with more reasons than you to feel depressed 7) adopt a positive attitude in life, positive thoughts 8) change your habits of sleeping 9) join a club, community center 10) be outdoors, take long walks, 11) set yourself a challenging goal.....
I could come up with more, but Iīm too depressed to think them up...
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:20 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I was going to suggest that Vincente, his lovely wife and poor dog move in with the kid's parents - until the kid leaves their home. This genteel Spanish hospitality could be a double edged sword.
What.... Change my beautiful coastal village with its balmy weather for a dormitory city from which to commute to and from Madrid and with no character.....That would be truly extreme!
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:21 AM   #36
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente solano View Post
I think I have a pretty accurate idea of what the therapist is going to tell me:
Take up an outside lover (or two) and drink to excess (works for me )...

Just a suggestion...
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente solano View Post
Iīm too depressed to follow REWīs sensible advice and, anyway, I think I have a pretty accurate idea of what the therapist is going to tell me: 1) take up an absorbing hobby 2) light daily exercise 3) some relaxing meditation 4) do some kind of volunteering 5) stop pitying yourself 6) look around you and notice people with more reasons than you to feel depressed 7) adopt a positive attitude in life, positive thoughts 8) change your habits of sleeping 9) join a club, community center 10) be outdoors, take long walks, 11) set yourself a challenging goal.....
I could come up with more, but Iīm too depressed to think them up...
Vicente, I'm going to chime in one last time, then move on: it is entirely likely your depression stems from some sort of chemical imbalance. I've seen it happen to someone very close to me who was placed on an antidepressant by a physician and the results were remarkable.

From over here it is difficult to understand why you won't make an effort to improve your situation and seek a medical evaluation. What do you have to lose? Certainly not your happiness...

I'm done now.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Vicente,

Why do you and your wife have to worry about what your other family members may think of you, but they don't seem to have to worry about what you think of their actions? This seems terribly unfair.

I suspect that people will agree, from China, to Africa, to Europe, to America, that it is never fair to saddle someone with an unasked-for, long-term guest.

Amethyst
Here in Spain it is assumed that family has to put up with a lot, and, for them, hosting "now and then" a nephew is nothing to get upset about. Itīs something that you take in stride.They say that they would happily do the same for me. But of couse I wouldnīt allow my son to crash whenever he liked in my siblingsīs houses for the reasons that my nephew does: just to be with his girlfriend
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:36 AM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Vicente, I'm going to chime in one last time, then move on: it is entirely likely your depression stems from some sort of chemical imbalance. I've seen it happen to someone very close to me who was placed on an antidepressant by a physician and the results were remarkable.

From over here it is difficult to understand why you won't make an effort to improve your situation and seek a medical evaluation. What do you have to lose? Certainly not your happiness...

I'm done now.
Your point has been taken. Some of my reasons are in my response to HaHa. I think that no therapist -on whom I donīt beleive too much- will be able to help me. Donīt get me wrong: I pay a lot of attention to all your suggestions on this board.
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 10:37 AM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rescueme View Post
Your dog and I are similar in nature ...
Itīs something I share with both of you.
__________________

__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The FED wants to be your friend? NYEXPAT FIRE Related Public Policy 7 10-28-2011 12:30 PM
Fed Warns Congress chinaco FIRE Related Public Policy 7 08-27-2011 08:07 AM
Fed Announcement 0% till mid 2013 chinaco FIRE and Money 63 08-11-2011 08:29 PM
MOre Tax Debate - Next up fed gas tax chinaco FIRE Related Public Policy 2 08-04-2011 11:10 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:03 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.