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Federal aid tied to school rating?
Old 09-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #1
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Federal aid tied to school rating?

Obama Proposes Linking Federal Aid to New College Ranking - Bloomberg

Plan would initiate in 2018:
Quote:
The White House said the new ratings would be based on such measures as access, including the percentage of students receiving Pell grants, reserved for those from lower-income families; affordability, including average tuition, scholarships and loan debt; and outcomes, such as graduation and transfer rates, earnings of graduates and graduates’ advanced degrees.
I have some qualms...

Whaddya think?
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:34 PM   #2
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I have some qualms...

Whaddya think?
I also think you have qualms
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
Obama Proposes Linking Federal Aid to New College Ranking - Bloomberg

Plan would initiate in 2018:

I have some qualms...

Whaddya think?
I can't stand graduation rates tied into aid. The first thing that happens is the suits breathe down on teachers, and then next thing you know kids are passing classes learning little and doing less.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #4
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I could see denying or reducing aid to some colleges that are just barely colleges. Otherwise, it seems like too much meddling by the feds. So the best solution could be tightening accreditation standards, not having a pay for performance system.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:47 PM   #5
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Eliminate numerical quotas, including management by Objectives. W. Edwards Deming.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:52 PM   #6
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I also think you have qualms
Probably worms, too.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:26 PM   #7
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Wrong way to go about it, IMO.

Far better to set up regulations that increase transparency and make comparisons easier, then let the market decide. I suspect that the reason that college costs have far outpaced inflation is largely due to government meddling. Is more meddling the answer?

Data on majors, placement rates in the field after graduation, median time to find a job in the field, median and ranges of salaries for those grads in the first 5 years, stuff like that. If they take loans, they could provide some benchmark on how long it would take to pay back those loans based on median salaries in that field - with some assumptions on how much above some factor of poverty level would be available to pay the loan (IOW, a $50K starting salary provides more than 2x the discretionary income of a $25K salary). Stuff like that.

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Old 09-22-2013, 06:47 PM   #8
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The law of unintended consequence seems pretty obvious. IMO it is a likely to transform our fine colleges and universities into our mediocre K-12 school system. When emphasis was placed on kids graduating from high school. School respond by lowering standards and practicing social promotions resulting in High School graduates with no skills.

To me a far more efficient way would be to require a portion say (10-30%) of the assets of university endowment and the staff's retirement plan in loans made to students at university. If students who attend the school pay back their loans than the endowment fund will have money to build nice new sports facilities,and the teachers and administrators will enjoy a good retirement. If not well.....

There would need to be some adjustments to not penalize less selective schools who admit poor and less academically qualified students.

It is basically the same idea as requiring banks to retain a percentage of the mortgages they make. I suspect if CountryWide was force to keep 20% interest in the mortgages they wrote they would have been more careful about who they loaned money to.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:39 PM   #9
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Wrong way to go about it, IMO.

Far better to set up regulations that increase transparency and make comparisons easier, then let the market decide. I suspect that the reason that college costs have far outpaced inflation is largely due to government meddling. Is more meddling the answer?
To government, more government is always the answer to any question.

Ha
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:24 PM   #10
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Did anyone see the Frontline story on 'for profit colleges'? Recruiters for some of these schools are no better than timeshare salesman, signing up any and every naive student they can find. They out right lie about job prospects and income one will make after graduation. Students end up with lower paying jobs than expected (if they are lucky enough to find one at all) and with school loan debt that will take a lifetime to repay. Much of the income (profit) these schools make come from student financial aid. I would have no problem with student financial aid restrictions being placed on these types of schools.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:39 PM   #11
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Not sure but this theme sounds familiar. "Everyone should have a house". "Everyone should have a college education". The similarity is the massive debt that will not be repaid.

Accountability hasn't worked well in high school curriculums except to give the teachers ulcers and to ensure they don't have the time to teach. I'd hate to see this at the college level also.

Our government gives free money to colleges and universities to hand out to students. What did they expect them to do. Not increase their enrollment and not take in the money?

Now that said, there is fraud and abuse in our colleges where this money is concerned. We have students enrolling, getting the free money and not going to class. They are only in it for the money. Not for the education.

We have local vocational programs, lower income students apply for. They get their money and bolt. As one young man said to me, "Hey it's $2,500 dollars. I can live for weeks on $2,500. Don't even have to go to class". Sit out a semester, turn around and do it again.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:38 AM   #12
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One of the major parts of the proposal was downplayed in the Bloomberg article...
the part about directing funding towards schools with proven post graduate higher salaries... measuring educational succes, by the income in the profession a graduate may choose to pursue.

While the genesis of this proposal is not clear, the concept seems to be that the educational effort in higher education, should be placed on educations that will provide a better financial outcome for the student, thus raising the economic strength of the nation.

My concern (qualms ) come from worrying that higher education subsidies will go to the relatively few students and schools that are recognized for certain specialties that currently pay the highest salaries. In effect, this may reduce the funding directed towards the humanities, education, social studies, healthcare, biology, criminal justice and many professions that typically have lower starting and midpoint salaries.

You can see the salary ranges for different professions here:

WSJ.com

If you go to the page, note that you can sort each column by clicking at the top heading. For instance clicking on career midpoint salaries will sort the salaries by profession from high to low, or from low to high.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:52 AM   #13
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...

My concern (qualms ) come from worrying that higher education subsidies will go to the relatively few students and schools that are recognized for certain specialties that currently pay the highest salaries. In effect, this may reduce the funding directed towards the humanities, education, social studies, healthcare, biology, criminal justice and many professions that typically have lower starting and midpoint salaries. ...

Is that a bad thing? Fewer people in those positions will move the supply/demand curve towards higher pay.

-ERD50
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:55 AM   #14
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Just found an older NYT article, that addresses my concerns. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/bu...anted=all&_r=0

My own alma mater is ranked 4th in the nation in the US News Report for Liberal Arts Colleges, but will likely rank far down in salaries, as most graduates are not in the financial, engineering or technology fields.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:02 AM   #15
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Just found an older NYT article, that addresses my concerns. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/bu...anted=all&_r=0
Just a matter of opinion.
A snippet, perhaps, so readers don't have to go another online source or behind a paywall?
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:25 PM   #16
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It's not just government meddling that has caused college costs to rise faster than inflation, although I'm sure that that has had an impact.

College costs have gone up so much because parents are desperate to provide any edge that they can to their kids. Wages have dropped dramatically for the non-college educated, outside of some alternative paths like trade schools and such.

If your choice is between never earning more than about $10/hr, or spending massive amounts to have at least a chance to do better, you spend the money, almost regardless of cost.



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I suspect that the reason that college costs have far outpaced inflation is largely due to government meddling. Is more meddling the answer?

-ERD50
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