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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 01:06 PM   #21
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Originally Posted by maddythebeagle
Also, I believe adding fireplaces is one of those projects that you get good return out of a house when you sell, so looking at it as a cost that you only recoup on fuel savings isnt seeing the entire picture. It does help a lot to have access to a source of wood (not real hard in Wisconsin). Also, many people like the heat over gas or other fuels. After I figure the cost of chainsaw fuel, chains, files, bar and chain oil, and the time, I think I save 20 bucks
True, adding a fireplace/insert will probably add value. Also, will give the house more appeal...when I came from SF and we looked at this home and saw 3 fireplaces, I was sold...though we really only use 2...
Everytime we get a straight-line wind thunderstorm I get more wood Although the last one in June I had to cut it off the house

I knew we were in a strange place when I experienced my first winter thunderstom here ...Lightening/Thunder strikes around the house along with snow flakes....
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 07:40 PM   #22
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

As my father once told me: "A fireplace warms you twice. Once when you split the wood, and then after you light it."

My Grandmother heated her home with a wood stove. It had an oven, a tank on the back around the stove pipe to heat water, the top had plates ("elements" on the modern stove) that could be picked up with a hook device where you stuffed the wood in. The kitchen was THE place to be in the winter.

Good wood isn't cheap so don't assume that it is the solution to high oil bills.

If you want to be independent of the system I would put in a propane fireplace and add a generator that runs on propane. You can fill up as need be.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 08:02 PM   #23
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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The 189-year-old almanac claims 80 percent to 85 percent accuracy for the forecasts written under the name Caleb Weatherbee.
[...]
The almanac, not to be confused with the New Hampshire-based Old Farmer's Almanac 24 years its senior, claims a circulation of nearly 5 million.
Never heard of this Johnny-come-lately Farmer's Alamanac before. The Old Farmer's Almanac is the real thing, famous for having correctly predicted a snow storm in July some time in the mid-1800's. Can FA top that?

Bpp, who receives a copy of the Old Farmer's Almanac from his mother in the US every year...
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 09:53 PM   #24
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

Mythbusters did a show that had a segment on fireplaces. They found that a regular fireplace warmed the room that it was in slightly, but dropped the temps in all the other rooms in the house...most of the heat from a fireplace goes up the flue and takes significant draft air with it, draft air that generally comes from every crack and seam in the house. The temp of the rooms in the house that didnt have the fireplace in it dropped 3 degrees. Test was done in the SF Bay Area, not a particularly cold spot so it might be more dramatic in colder locales.

Not sure what happens when you use an insert or other heat transfer device.

Caution to folks with newer homes and a running fireplace...crack a window or door near the fireplace for draft purposes. I had my carbon monoxide detector go off in the middle of the night a couple of times after going to bed and leaving a dying fire...when the heat from the fire was no longer strong enough to pull a draft from minute and obscure sources, the CO started leaking into the house through the glass doors. Never had that problem in any of my older homes, but my new nearly airtight one does.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 10:25 PM   #25
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Mythbusters did a show that had a segment on fireplaces. They found that a regular fireplace warmed the room that it was in slightly, but dropped the temps in all the other rooms in the house...most of the heat from a fireplace goes up the flue and takes significant draft air with it, draft air that generally comes from every crack and seam in the house. The temp of the rooms in the house that didnt have the fireplace in it dropped 3 degrees. Test was done in the SF Bay Area, not a particularly cold spot so it might be more dramatic in colder locales.
I read some info on this a while back too. Thermodynamically, the heat transfer into your system (your house) is usually equal to or less than the heat loss out of your system. You fuel the fire with heated warm air (from your usual furnace), then the warm exhaust air leaves up the chimney. You'll feel warmth around the fireplace, but your furnace will have to run more to keep the rest of the house warm.

However, I guess if you only use fireplaces to heat your house, then you don't have to worry about fuel for your conventional furnace...
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 11:40 PM   #26
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

Two of my fireplaces uses a Ben Franklin invention - the air flows from an outside vent (it can be closed when not in use) into the firebox to provide the oxygen for the fire, so most of the air flow up the chimney comes from outside and the almost air tight glass doors minimize the air loss from the room. Pretty cool. Gets the temp up so don't have to use the heat until next morning....

Fireplaces that don't have an insert or glass doors are very wasteful and would produce the results stated in the previous posts.

My experience here in Minnesota is that I save over $1000 a year in heating costs by burning wood from my property.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 11:45 PM   #27
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

If your fireplace isn't heating your house, you just have the wrong kind of fireplace.* *Ours works great:

Tulikivi

Look at Swedish, Finnish, Russian, and German fireplaces for high efficiency.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-29-2005, 11:49 PM   #28
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

Heat retainability
Tulikivi produces all its fireplaces from its own soapstone. A superior fireplace material taken from quarries close to the Finnish town of Juuka. This stone has the unique property of storing and conducting heat. Just 3 hours of heating are all that most of our models need to keep rooms pleasantly warm for up to 24 hours.

Cool!..I mean that's HOT!...
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 08:26 AM   #29
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning


Fireplaces that don't have an insert or glass doors are very wasteful and would produce the results stated in the previous posts.

My experience here in Minnesota is that I save over $1000 a year in heating costs by burning wood from my property.
We put in a Kozyheat fireplace when we built 19 years ago. We have found it to be quite efficient. I remember that we paid good money for the fireplace and it took 4 BIG guys to move it into place.

My rough estimates are that we have saved in excess of $15,000 over that time in fuel costs. We have access to all the free firewood we want on friend's 66 acres. And in the last few years we acquired cords and cords of wood from downed trees in the neighborhoold due to high wind storms that moved thru. (oak, maple, and other hardwoods)

We happen to like our upstairs being cool at night (sometimes downright cold) so turning off the heat and using only a fireplace works for us. Relatives have made comments though on the coolness of the upstairs when they are here. (not for everyone)

We also happen to enjoy cutting and stacking the wood. And hubby did opt for a logsplitter a few years back which is a back and time saver. (sold an antique motorscooter that he paid $500 for to a dealer for $1200....enough to cover the splitter)
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 08:59 AM   #30
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

Most of the inserts use outside air for combustion and there is no need to crack a window due to issues of negative pressure created by burning indoor air. They burn cleaner too, using either catalytic converters or other methods to reduce polution.

Keep the chimney clean--some of the newer technology ends up creating dirtier chimneys.

Big difference from the old days of heating with wood. When I was growing up we used to burn 10 cords a year to heat our home with our wood furnace. It burned so hot we never had creosote in the chimney to speak of. Though one of my jobs was cleaning the chimney once a year.

Curious as to cost per cord in different parts of the country.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 09:29 AM   #31
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

My post about net heat loss from fireplaces refers to the traditional type (with no external blower). I don't know much about these new-fangled high-tech fireplace inserts.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 09:45 AM   #32
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Originally Posted by justin
My post about net heat loss from fireplaces refers to the traditional type (with no external blower). I don't know much about these new-fangled high-tech fireplace inserts.
Must be a southerner, eh?

Every home I have been to in southern California had fireplaces. Seemed weird to me. None were energy efficient as it probably didn't matter.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 10:07 AM   #33
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Originally Posted by Martha
Must be a southerner, eh?

Every home I have been to in southern California had fireplaces. Seemed weird to me. None were energy efficient as it probably didn't matter.
I am a southerner. Almost all the houses here come with fireplaces. I don't know why. No one ever uses them. I think they are mostly ornamental. We recently remodeled our fireplace and made it real fancy looking. We painted the inside of it dark black. We'll probably never use it though.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 10:18 AM   #34
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Big difference from the old days . . . When I was growing up we used to . . .
Oh, no, I am so embarrassed. I just moved into old fartdom.
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 06:09 PM   #35
 
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

Site and forum for fireplace questions:

http://hearth.com
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-30-2005, 06:23 PM   #36
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Site and forum for fireplace questions:

http://hearth.com
Is that Greg and Martha in the Hearth Net Home picture...
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-31-2005, 09:19 AM   #37
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

"Curious as to cost per cord in different parts of the country."

Last year in central Wisconsin seasoned oak firewood 16" face cord delivered with a 2 cord minimum for $40.00 a face cord.

Gonzo
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-31-2005, 12:12 PM   #38
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Originally Posted by Gonzo
"Curious as to cost per cord in different parts of the country."

Last year in central Wisconsin seasoned oak firewood 16" face cord delivered with a 2 cord minimum for $40.00 a face cord.

Gonzo
Gonzo, I'm hazy on how many faces in a full cord..is it 3? got to watch how they stack some of them cross-stack... too much air...this old terminology is nice to have in our modern world..No. 2 son just back from a week in the Boundary Waters with portages measured in rods...
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-31-2005, 12:56 PM   #39
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

A full cord of wood is 4'x4'x8'... therefore it would take 3-16" face cords to equal a full cord.

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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning
Old 08-31-2005, 01:14 PM   #40
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Re: Fill 'er up now or tomorrow morning

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Is that Greg and Martha in the Hearth Net Home picture...
No!!! I say "dang" not "darn." But, other than that it's 'pretty close' for me. I have less hair than Fred. The picture also needs a dog with a hat.

--Greg
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