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Old 02-12-2019, 05:07 AM   #21
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When I first early retired, I was looking for a place to read and share. I can't really do much of that with friends and family, it is very personal and people would not understand. I was happy to find this group.
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FIRE is a lonely passion
Old 02-12-2019, 05:39 AM   #22
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FIRE is a lonely passion

On the broad topic of finding others with whom to discuss FIRE: thatís pretty general.

Are there specific sub-topics that are especially interesting? Although nothingís perfect, the breakdown contained in this overall forum (ignoring Admin, FAQ, Hi, etc.) is a pretty good start.

Can you rank them based on what your level of interest is?

[ADDED] I smile when I read about ďROMEOĒ get-togethers.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:03 AM   #23
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A voice from the other side.
Initially after my cancer scare, out intention was for me to go back to my (then) plans to build out my new business. As part of the recovery we spent some time at our lakeside park model camper in the Woodhaven Lakes campground. By chance, we found a dozen or so, youngish couples around our age., who had retired early and decided to live in the campground, and snowbird to Florida, Texas or Arizona.

It was great, and we did that ourselves, from 1989 to 2012. The thing is, we basically lived together, played together, traveled together, square danced, and spent the rest of the time playing cards and doing "pot luck dinners". We were all basically in the same economic status, so there was absolutely no "keeping up with...", and we shared everything from food, to boats, to rides and everything in between. A closeness that never was anything but friendly. Really... a lesson in getting along, that transferred to our Florida over 55 community.

In short, it was a breakaway from the working world and any peer pressure or vanity. Probably the best thing we ever did in our 30 year retirement.
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Speaking of the DW...
Old 02-12-2019, 07:08 AM   #24
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Speaking of the DW...

We live in a master planned community in which 90% of the folks are +55 with the majority in 60's and on SS. We moved in at age 55. All of our neighbors moved in after us. We wo*ked PT for three years to really ensure our plan was set for retirement. Some fully retired neighbors at the community pool would ask "when are you going to be able to retire?" Our line back was generally, "when we choose to no longer wo*k". So we decided after three years of PT to bag it in December. In and around October or November, the question comes up again from a neighbor in their late 60's (who still does housecleaning for some under the table $). This time I tell her December 19th. It was apparent she was shocked and not genuinely pleased. Since then this neighbor apparently brought us up (i.e. talking a little smack) at a recent Bunko game that my wife was unable to attend.

My wife felt bad that folks were talking about us behind our backs. I just had her read this thread and the thread cited earlier. She feels much better understanding that most people made choices in life that did not permit them to FIRE. Jealousy is a normal human trait and one that many on this forum have shared. The last point is that we have found as a married couple that the journey to FIRE has been planned with LBYM and investing for years. The jealousy part from even acquaintance neighbors, however, was not expected. Luckily, we have enough friends and neighbors to be cordial to the naysayers and friends to those who are really friends that wish you well.

P.S. +2 or more to keeping your personal finances personal. Sometimes, however in a community setting some aspects of your personal life become public through casual conversation. "Do you have kids?" "Do you wo*k?", etc.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:30 AM   #25
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Are there specific sub-topics that are especially interesting? Although nothingís perfect, the breakdown contained in this overall forum (ignoring Admin, FAQ, Hi, etc.) is a pretty good start.

Can you rank them based on what your level of interest is?
Re-reading what I posted here, I thought, "Hey! Poll!", then realized a proxy is already available: the number of threads started in each sub-forum (not including replies). The current rankings, highest-to-lowest, are:


FIRE and Money
Other Topics
Health and ER
Life After FIRE
Young Dreamers
Travel Information
Stock Picking
FIRE Related Public Policy

My personal rankings would be somewhat different, and I think have changed from my time pre- and post-FIRE.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:53 AM   #26
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I would love to evangelize about FIRE to my friends and family (especially my young adult family)...but I donít. I try to keep my mouth shut until they ask (only 2 have asked). I have to remind myself that it is none of my business how they handle their money.
The bolded part above is my greatest disappointment. Our young adult kids tune us out very quickly if we ever try to mention saving for retirement. Unfortunately, they can't/won't think that far ahead. On the other hand, I suppose I probably did the same thing at their age.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:58 AM   #27
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I would love to evangelize about FIRE to my friends and family (especially my young adult family)...but I donít. I try to keep my mouth shut until they ask (only 2 have asked). I have to remind myself that it is none of my business how they handle their money.

This has always been my approach. On another similar thread a while back, I mentioned that I made "quiet" attempts to get my staff to consider minimum 401K contributions, or even minimum deductions for US Savings Bonds. 4 employers, 100 or so subordinates, and to the best of my knowledge convinced exactly.....2.
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FIRE is a lonely passion
Old 02-12-2019, 08:37 AM   #28
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FIRE is a lonely passion

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To the OP,

I agree with your sentiment as for many in the civilian world not necessarily being interested in personal finance, but I am a little surprised to hear you say this knowing your occupation. Personal finance comes up all the time at my base, especially with the Blended Retirement System decision last year, changing BAH, GS civilian job conversions, and Tricare status changes (OK, that's more for reservists, but you get the idea). They may not all embrace FIRE, but they do care about their paychecks.

I would think you should be able to get your "fix" at work either talking to other officers or mentoring other airmen about financial awareness. To a degree, Our "personal" finance IS Uncle Sam's business...at least that's what they tell you at GTC briefings...
So go ahead, talk finance at work...you might just save a career or two.

Thanks for you and your wife's service,
LB


Iíve thought about hosting a brown bag discussion for anyone whoís interested. And youíre right, many financial topics are discussed quite openly...GTC, BAH, BRS vs High 36...but Iím referring more to sharing personal finance or FIRE strategies, tips, goals, successes and failures...the kinds of reciprocal sharing one does with good friends and family members. Sometimes itís nice to have some company on a journey.

I was ruminating, and a little sad that personal finance is still a topic most people wonít touch. But this forum is here, so itís NBD! Grateful DW is so on board, too.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:38 AM   #29
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I love the concept of FIRE. I think itís brilliant and worthwhile and thereís so much hope in the possibility. Itís not for everyone, and some make strong arguments that itís all but impossible for many low-income earners. I get that.

But why is it so difficult to find people who are interested in or willing to talk about personal finance, let alone interested in FIRE?

Itís just weird to have this passion, and have virtually no one to share it with besides DW.
Itís especially weird because I want the people I care about to know FIRE is a thing and that itís doable. I want them to feel this excitement and hope. But when the subject has been broached, just a teeny tiny bit, itís clear they arenít interested in further discussion.

Do you all just live ďin secretĒ, as it were?

(Did I miss somewhere that the first rule of FIRE Club is donít talk about FIRE Club?)
I share your pain. I've reverted to our "cheapness" with the relatives and friends. I simply talk about all the different ways we save money, frugal living if you will. They know we're retired (DH does have side gig consulting, but was his choice to stay connected, he could quit that at any time).

Certain relatives call us "cheap" and I was insulted at first. This forum gave me strength. We live pretty well! Overseas vacations, stuck in ATT UVerse, enjoy life for the most part. I make no excuses for the ways we do save, so the message is out there to our family and friends. It's hard to give advice to someone who does not want to listen. Even family who is in serious debt, yet continues to spend like drunken sailors. No offense to the drunken sailors on this forum.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:43 AM   #30
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Iíve thought about hosting a brown bag discussion for anyone whoís interested. And youíre right, many financial topics are discussed quite openly...GTC, BAH, BRS vs High 36...but Iím referring more to sharing personal finance or FIRE strategies, tips, goals, successes and failures...the kinds of reciprocal sharing one does with good friends and family members. Sometimes itís nice to have some company on a journey.

I was ruminating, and a little sad that personal finance is still a topic most people wonít touch. But this forum is here, so itís NBD! Grateful DW is so on board, too.
I can relate...as a retired AF enlisted "sweaty"

It was very difficult to discuss FIRE plans/methods/etc with my co-w*rkers/friends; most of whom were pilots (making good money and in the "sweet spot" of the pilot bonus) but just couldn't understand my "madness". I don't know where you are stationed, but perhaps you could find a Meetup (or even create one?) with like minded folks. I am not a huge fan of MMM, but there does seem to be a lot of "chapters" where folks meet up.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:51 AM   #31
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No offense to the drunken sailors on this forum.
As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote in Harden v. Gordon (1823)

"Every court should watch with jealousy any encroachment upon the rights of seamen, because they are unprotected and need counsel, because they are thoughtless and require indulgence, because they are credulous and complying, and are easily overreached. They are emphatically the wards of the admiralty; and though not technically incapable of entering into a valid contract, they are treated in the same manner, as courts of equity are accustomed to treat young heirs, dealing with their expectancies, wards with their guardians … and as they have little of the foresight and caution belonging to persons trained in other pursuits of life, the most rigid scrutiny is instituted into the terms of every contract, in which they engage."


With all the drinking and swearing, it's a miracle I have any time to read this board.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 AM   #32
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Most of my friends work for the state and all have pensions. Most also contribute to deferred compensation.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:47 AM   #33
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As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote in Harden v. Gordon (1823)

"Every court should watch with jealousy any encroachment upon the rights of seamen, because they are unprotected and need counsel, because they are thoughtless and require indulgence, because they are credulous and complying, and are easily overreached. They are emphatically the wards of the admiralty; and though not technically incapable of entering into a valid contract, they are treated in the same manner, as courts of equity are accustomed to treat young heirs, dealing with their expectancies, wards with their guardians Ö and as they have little of the foresight and caution belonging to persons trained in other pursuits of life, the most rigid scrutiny is instituted into the terms of every contract, in which they engage."

With all the drinking and swearing, it's a miracle I have any time to read this board.
I had to read that 4 times. In summary, sailors are trained children and need parents to guide them in life.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:59 AM   #34
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I had to read that 4 times. In summary, sailors are trained children and need parents to guide them in life.
Precisely.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:03 AM   #35
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Precisely.
I should be a lawyer.
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There are none so blind as those who WILL not see
Old 02-12-2019, 10:43 AM   #36
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There are none so blind as those who WILL not see

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On another similar thread a while back, I mentioned that I made "quiet" attempts to get my staff to consider minimum 401K contributions, or even minimum deductions for US Savings Bonds. 4 employers, 100 or so subordinates, and to the best of my knowledge convinced exactly.....2.
My Megacorp has offered employee savings programs since approximately the late Cretaceous era, with a good match, a variety of sound investing options and reasonable expense ratios. You'd think anybody capable of understanding compound interest would be in it, at LEAST to take advantage of the company match.

I'm no longer surprised, but always astonished, by how low the voluntary participation rate is.

The only upside is the amusing creativity of their excuses. Bless their hearts.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:16 AM   #37
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So many friends admire fire, but want it easy. If you just buy this one stock or fund, one less latte a week, and I can retire wealthy and young.
It didnt work that way for me, it was a tuff solitary pursuit.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #38
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Trying to bring up FIRE to those who don't participate is difficult. So many that I work with are just struggling to make 2 big car payments, and live in a rented house after a messy divorce, let alone see a bright, debt free future.

I am truly happy that I found this forum as well, lots of experienced souls that are willing to share their advice, and stories to help others along.

I visited my 77 year old parents yesterday, and brought up what they had done to successfully FIRE at 59 years old, and we discussed numbers, figures, and strategies...something I can't do with other family members.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:48 AM   #39
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I don't find FIRE a lonely passion. I have friends that I can discuss it with, even if their pursuits are not the same. I have family I can talk about it with, even though they are not on the path. I can do this because I accept they are different, with different priorities, and just celebrate my milestones and plans, while trying to make sure it doesn't come across as if I'm telling them they should have similar goals. When my sister laments all her bills and that she still has years until she'll pay off the debt consolidation loan they took out to consolidate their 5-figures worth of CC debt one minute, and tells me she has no interest in taking the time/effort to get a higher paying job or work any of the offered overtime, I just nod and do my best to avoid saying anything negative. Maybe even agree with some statements that don't sound ludicrous which come up in her ranting.

Online, I can be fully honest with people here, in various facebook groups (Choose FI and others), in Reddit forums like r/financialindependence etc.

I have many outlets where I can talk about everything and plans and suggest people do things the way I think they should be done, where the audience is receptive to such discussions and suggestions. I just don't do it with people who are obviously not looking for such conversation.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:09 PM   #40
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Isn’t that the purpose of this forum and its membership? Many, many people who love to hold forth on FIRE-related (or not) topics?
Exactly.

I guess I could sit around and do the "poor little old me" thing about people not wanting to hear about my finances; but then I'd have to do the same about so many other topics that just aren't good topics for discussion.

For example my politics would turn some peoples' hair white. OK, mine already is white.... But anyway I just don't choose to bring up that topic unless I am pretty sure the other person is like minded.

This is something my mother taught me as a little girl, when she told me "never discuss politics or religion in polite company". She could have included sex and money in the same sentence. It's just common sense.

When I want to discuss one of these four topics, I look for a forum dedicated to that sort of discussion where I know people are there because they want to talk about the topic anonymously. I wouldn't spring such discussion on a random friend, co-worker, or acquaintance in real life. Most of us develop filters like this at some point.
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