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Re: forgery
Old 09-15-2004, 10:29 PM   #21
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Re: forgery

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It just doesn't matter. * No matter how many experts testify that the documents are valid, there will always be other experts to question their validity. *Do we really need such proof that he got some help along the way? *Questioning the documents is a brilliant move -- the issue is a tie.
I continue to be amazed by this nonsense. GWB used the connections of his wealthy friends and family to avoid going to Vietnam. Instead he got assigned to a nice, safe National Guard position. Does anyone who was draft age during that time really doubt that? And not many of us could really claim that we would not have done the same thing were the option available to us. How many of us can really blame him? That was a long time ago.

Did he further take advantage of his wealthy friends and family by not even showing up for his nice, safe assignment? That was a long time ago too. If it were true, does it tell us anything about him today?

But here's what does tell us something about him today. He is not being honest about the decision he made to join the National Guard rather than serve in Vietnam. He continues to pretend that this was a purely honorable and patriotic choice. That is hypocritical.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 05:51 AM   #22
 
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Re: forgery

Hi salaryguru! Yep, it's all nonsense, like most political
discorse ("political puke" GDER calls it). I am no great
GWB fan (although I was at one time). Anyway, I agree with you. Who cares what happened so long ago? Unless my preferred candidate (Bush by a mile) is
shown to be an ax murderer, I care not at all. In my
case, I chose to serve by getting married. It kept me out
of Viet Nam, but I deserve a Purple Heart too.
I wouldn't throw it away either

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 06:52 AM   #23
 
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Re: forgery

Quote:
But here's what does tell us something about him today. *He is not being honest about the decision he made to join the National Guard rather than serve in Vietnam. *He continues to pretend that this was a purely honorable and patriotic choice. *That is hypocritical.
When I was of Military age during the Vietnam War and eventually was drafted, it was well known that anyone that joined the National Guard was basically looking for a way out (Not today though) and too chicken to go to Canada and leave their Mommies!

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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 12:36 PM   #24
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Re: forgery

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When I was of Military age during the Vietnam War and eventually was drafted, it was well known that anyone that joined the National Guard was basically looking for a way out (Not today though) and too chicken to go to Canada and leave their Mommies!
Maybe that's only obvious to those of us who were draft age at that time. But it is completely true.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 02:52 PM   #25
 
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Re: forgery

Yep, I agree with Cut-Throat too. The bus was
idling, waiting for me to board when the governor
called with my pardon. So, I missed Viet Nam by the
barest of margins, and not a bit sorry I did. I have
several close friends who served there. Some were
wounded, but all made it home. It was years before
I heard any of their stories, but gradually over time
they opened up. There's another book I could write
if I was not a lazy slug.

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 04:54 PM   #26
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Re: forgery

I was a little too old for Vietnam, but I did not know
anybody, outside of career military, who wanted to
go. Many of my younger associates "escaped" via
college and graduate school and were glad to do so.
I was a young manager in the defense industry at
the time and made several trips to draft boards to
"save" young engineers on critical jobs. I rationalized my own lack of service by the knowledge that I helped develop the smart bombs and terrain following radar systems that gave our people the edge.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: forgery
Old 09-16-2004, 08:17 PM   #27
 
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Re: forgery

My father completed college, medical school, and then was drafted. I don't understand why he didn't get deferments like Cheney and others. My mom tells me that his whole medical school class was drafted.

The yardstick I use to justify war is: a) would I go, and b) would I encourage my children to go. If the answers are no, and no, the cause isn't justified.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-18-2004, 09:07 AM   #28
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Re: forgery

How many of you criticizing Bush for joining the National Guard voted for Clinton?

Just curious.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-18-2004, 10:10 AM   #29
 
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Re: forgery

Off the question a bit. Obviously I didn't vote for Clinton
but never slammed him for a lack of military record
or patriotism. You see, I can accept almost any sort of lapse or personal failing, mistakes in judgement, etc.
as long as the person's basic politics line up with mine.
Since almost no one actually does line up with me,
out here on the "fringe" of political thought, I am reduced to support of whoever comes closest. This year
it is Bush. If the Libertarians ever fielded
an electable candidate, I might register and vote again.
Otherwise, the ballot box has seen the last of me.

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-19-2004, 12:22 PM   #30
 
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Re: forgery

Quote:
How many of you criticizing Bush for joining the National Guard voted for Clinton?
Just curious.
Good question, but I didn't catch anyone here criticizing Bush for getting into tang. On a scale from 1 (least) - 5 (most important) I give this issue a 1. Why isn't it a 0 (like it was for Clinton)? Very simple, Clinton was against the Vietnam war, Bush was for the war. In addition, Bush's campaign emphasizes 'values' and 'strong leadership'. Yet, his success and accomplishments (school, Vietnam, business, politics) are a result of family connections, not hard work, and intelligence. He's from a world where the rules are different for the Bushes.

I voted for Clinton 2x and long for the days of a paralyized and divided government.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-19-2004, 01:21 PM   #31
 
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Re: forgery

Well obviously a guy like me finds Clinton most repugnant. While not a Bushie exactly, he is my choice by a mile. But here is the interesting part. I too long for a paralyzed and divided government.

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-19-2004, 01:46 PM   #32
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Re: forgery

Glad to see I'm not alone here, the best government we've ever had seems to be one that is incapable of getting anything done. Of course, my personal view is a hands-off governement anyway.....

-pan-
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Re: forgery
Old 09-19-2004, 03:56 PM   #33
 
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Re: forgery

I'll go for that - let's re-elect Bush, get a 60-40 Republican Senate for conservative judicial appointments, and a Democrat House that would vote to impeach Bush and only make spending proposals that are unacceptable to the Senate. Absolutely nothing would get done for 4 years - it doesn't get any better than that!
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Re: forgery
Old 09-19-2004, 06:02 PM   #34
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Re: forgery

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I rationalized my own lack of service by the knowledge that I helped develop the smart bombs and terrain following radar systems that gave our people the edge.
To me, this is not a rationalization. It is the obviously best way to use your skills, both for yourself and your country. If I were in harm's way, while I likely would resent a lot of dodges, I would never be dumb enough to resent someone who is in fact my armorer.

Huzzah for you and what you contributed.

Mikey
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Best government
Old 09-19-2004, 08:07 PM   #35
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Best government

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Of course, my personal view is a hands-off governement anyway.
I just want a government that will not interfere in my personal life (especially in the form of taxing me), doesn't degrade the integrity and values of the Constitution and our founding fathers, and protects every US citizen from the savage scumbags of this Earth.

I think Bush is the closest guy in the race that can do what I want.
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Re: forgery
Old 09-20-2004, 05:32 AM   #36
 
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Re: forgery

Another thing about Bush; he will leave guns in the hands of US citizens. Thus they have a choice to
protect themselves from "the savage scumbags"
or calling 911. I like having the option.

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-20-2004, 07:16 AM   #37
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Re: forgery

One of my neighbors heard someone rummaging through his garage one night and called 911 only to be told all officers were busy and no one would be there for 45 minutes. He then called 911 back and told them not ot hurry as he had shot the intruder. ( he had not) Many police arrived in less than 5 minutes arrested the intruder and charged my neighbor with public mischeif or something like that. The charges against my neighbor were later dropped. I still remember the federal liberals (Canadian) and thier *&^%$#$%!!! gun registry. From an outsiders point of view I would still vote for the guy who went to Vietnam rather than the national guard guy.

Bruce
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Re: forgery
Old 09-20-2004, 09:33 AM   #38
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Re: forgery

In TX, between local sun down and local sun up, on your own property, you may use deadly force to protect yourself, your family, and your property.

As long as there is no funny business, then there is no problem. Investigation will bear it out. But if it was a car reposessor with an active warrant, then you'd be in big trouble!
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Re: forgery
Old 09-20-2004, 05:24 PM   #39
 
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Re: forgery

Hello Telly! This is one reason I love Texas. Pretty
gun friendly (unlike Illinois). My feelings are well
documented on this issue. Texas is either way ahead
or way behind the rest of the country. Either way,
I like it.

John Galt
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Re: forgery
Old 09-20-2004, 08:35 PM   #40
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Re: forgery

Right Telly and John. Only in TX you say. Remember the visiting British tourist who knocked on the door to ask directions and the "scumbag" Texas homeowner shot him? And what about all those kids down there that get hold of daddy's or big bro's gun and shoot themselves?
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