Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2015, 06:42 PM   #101
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
Welcome to the Internet. Please note that the California governor did NOT issue a new edict on long showers. He DID issue an executive order declaring a state of emergency, Executive Order B-29-15.

http://gov.ca.gov/docs/4.1.15_Executive_Order.pdf

It's not nearly as fun or exciting to be outraged about as the BreitBart Report, though.

It's an emergency order under Sections 8567 and 8571 of the California Government Code to bypass the normal (very slow) procedures of various state agencies and telling them to Get On With It in implementing the cutbacks ordered last year.

The governor has previously directed the State Water Resources Control Board to implement mandatory water reductions in cities and towns across California to reduce water usage by 25 percent compared to calendar year 2013.
In the link's video, at about 27 sec mark, Governor Moonbeam in his own words says it effects how long people stay in their shower....... directive has force of law...... at around 51 sec says people can be fined five hundred dollars a day..... Maybe he did not read his own directive?

Edit Add: Perhaps I should not get wound up about a politician's on video statements v what they signed off.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-05-2015, 07:25 PM   #102
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Well, after I posted that I decided to google around a bit. It looks like I was wrong, at least on a state level. Colorado appears to be the only state where it's against the law at the state level. I know personally that MD has restrictions at local levels, and have read quite a bit about similar laws in CA. TX is definitely on the collect it bandwagon, as are some others. Here's the most informative webpage I found regarding it, if anybody is interested. Rainwater harvesting regulations state by state | Rain water harvesting and slow sand water filters
I think it was CA that had the most strict grey water laws. See here:

Gray Water Policy Center

But yes, I had heard about laws on collecting storm run-off. This article is short on facts and big on fearmongering..

Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water - NaturalNews.com
ArkTinkerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 07:32 PM   #103
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
I think it was CA that had the most strict grey water laws. See here:

Gray Water Policy Center

But yes, I had heard about laws on collecting storm run-off. This article is short on facts and big on fearmongering..

Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water - NaturalNews.com
Wow! Not an actual fact to be found in that article. Usually when you read the comments on a blog, the followers are "ditto'ing" all over the place. The comments after this article are mostly calling BS on him. Quite surprising considering his is "internet's No. 1 natural health news website".
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 07:44 PM   #104
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
I think it was CA that had the most strict grey water laws. See here:

Gray Water Policy Center

But yes, I had heard about laws on collecting storm run-off. This article is short on facts and big on fearmongering..

Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water - NaturalNews.com
Just to be sure there is no confusion, grey water reuse and rain water collection are two entirely different animals.
__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 08:21 PM   #105
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 3,361
Note that Ca has still not completed installing water meters in homes. Until recently they had flat rates, in 2014 it was about 250k homes. The cities have until 2025 to install them, although I suspect the rate will speed up. It was noted that without water meters folks used 39% more water. (Also of course no way to monitor water usage, and a water meter is also a way to detect leaks).
meierlde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 08:42 PM   #106
Moderator Emeritus
M Paquette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
In the link's video, at about 27 sec mark, Governor Moonbeam in his own words says it effects how long people stay in their shower....... directive has force of law...... at around 51 sec says people can be fined five hundred dollars a day..... Maybe he did not read his own directive?

Edit Add: Perhaps I should not get wound up about a politician's on video statements v what they signed off.
I am shocked, SHOCKED to hear that water use may affect water usage.
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 08:52 PM   #107
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
I saw the interview with the governor.... and he did say that long showers were outlawed (not sure of the exact words, but that was the gist)....


I also remember the person doing the interview (do not remember her name) said that 80% of water usage in Cali was by farmers who make up 2% of the state GDP.... seems like an easy way to fix the problem... change the water rules... make the farmers pay a market rate.... why subsidize the farmers
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 09:23 PM   #108
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I saw the interview with the governor.... and he did say that long showers were outlawed (not sure of the exact words, but that was the gist)....


I also remember the person doing the interview (do not remember her name) said that 80% of water usage in Cali was by farmers who make up 2% of the state GDP.... seems like an easy way to fix the problem... change the water rules... make the farmers pay a market rate.... why subsidize the farmers
Or, make everybody pay a market rate. Talk about an easy fix.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 05:54 AM   #109
Recycles dryer sheets
Greencheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Or, make everybody pay a market rate. Talk about an easy fix.
But then SOMEBODY has to give up SOMETHING. Everyone just wants it all, and they want it now!
Greencheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 06:16 AM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South central PA
Posts: 3,469
California supplies about 80-90% of the fruits and nuts consumed in the US. 70% of the almond growers are small farmers. Paying market rates will put the small farmers out of business. And what are you going to eat? Probably good reasons to subsidize the farmers. What's more important? Food and people's livelihoods or green lawns and fountains?


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 09:24 AM   #111
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
California supplies about 80-90% of the fruits and nuts consumed in the US. 70% of the almond growers are small farmers. Paying market rates will put the small farmers out of business. And what are you going to eat? Probably good reasons to subsidize the farmers. What's more important? Food and people's livelihoods or green lawns and fountains?


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

They were saying that the nuts take a lot more water to grow than other crops.... so yes, if they cannot grow them without paying market rates for their water they should go out of business.... this is a back door subsidy that cost other taxpayers....

And if water was at market rates, I bet that there would be fewer green lawns... you can price water on a scale... say $20 per 1,000 for the first 20K... $30 for the next 10, $50 for the next, $100 for the next.... so once you get past 60K or so the water is getting expensive... if you are really rich, you have a green lawn but you pay for it...
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 09:27 AM   #112
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: seattle
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
California supplies about 80-90% of the fruits and nuts consumed in the US. 70% of the almond growers are small farmers. Paying market rates will put the small farmers out of business. And what are you going to eat? Probably good reasons to subsidize the farmers. What's more important? Food and people's livelihoods or green lawns and fountains?


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
It's entirely possible for consumers to live without almonds. The same jobs and liveleyhood argument is frequently applied to coal use and mining, and if taken to heart, hurts the rest of us to help the few. Cal almond farmers need to figure out how to conserve, or transition to small water budget crops.
I realize almonds are tremendously profitable, and the problem is not trivial.
bld999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 09:29 AM   #113
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
Perhaps a phase-in of higher rates for agricultural use would be less disruptive.
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 09:37 AM   #114
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,584
Price is one way to allocate a resource, but it tends to work better in those situations where consumers and producers alike have options and both enjoy relatively similar ability to influence the marketplace. Water does not fit these criteria very well.
MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 08:28 PM   #115
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South central PA
Posts: 3,469
I apologize for killing this thread. I am curious what your reactions are to my post.

Yes, I have a personal interest here. 10 days ago I walked on the land I now partially own, my family purchased 120 years ago, which supported my family until my dad and his sisters sought other sources of income. The orchard allowed my aunt to survive, given she went bankrupt due and had SS income of <$8000/yr and the farm income was greater than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 08:38 PM   #116
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by meierlde View Post
Note that Ca has still not completed installing water meters in homes. Until recently they had flat rates, in 2014 it was about 250k homes. The cities have until 2025 to install them, although I suspect the rate will speed up. It was noted that without water meters folks used 39% more water. (Also of course no way to monitor water usage, and a water meter is also a way to detect leaks).
I was surprised to learn this, so searched the Web for more info. Indeed, there are still some towns in CA where water meters still have not been installed. Amazing!

What was also surprising to me was that in cities where meters got installed, water consumption dropped only 10%. I would expect a lot more. So, it was good that people did not waste water as much as I would assume, when it was "all you can eat".
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 08:44 PM   #117
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,645
We lived in southern California during the drought of the 1980s and were on rationing for quite a while. I remember calculating the flow out of all my lawn sprinkler heads and reducing the flow in some to optimize the systems. We cut water use in 1/2 doing that one exercise.

That's where most of the water is going as everything is being watered and in a drought, even more so.
__________________
*********Go Astros!*********
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 08:50 PM   #118
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
I apologize for killing this thread. I am curious what your reactions are to my post.

Yes, I have a personal interest here. 10 days ago I walked on the land I now partially own, my family purchased 120 years ago, which supported my family until my dad and his sisters sought other sources of income. The orchard allowed my aunt to survive, given she went bankrupt due and had SS income of <$8000/yr and the farm income was greater than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

I think that over time things change.... a subsidy that was established 100 or so years ago just does not make sense today... small farmers just have to either adjust or go out of business.... look at all the small businesses that Walmart and other like them have destroyed... heck, it is hard to find a grocery store that is not owned by a big corporation...

So, I am sorry that the land cannot support you or your family any more... but why should that create a liability for all taxpayers

At my old job my boss' parents owned a farm... gvmt paid his dad not to farm... dad died... mom never intended to farm, but kept being paid not to farm for over 30 years.... I was always surprised at how son kept talking down gvmt payments and how high his taxes were when his mom was getting a pretty large check for doing nothing...
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 08:56 PM   #119
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,169
I guess it's a good thing that our in-progress master bath bathroom remodel includes a diverter from the shower and bathtub upstairs to a grey water system. And while the remodel is in progress, I'm using our outdoor beach shower - which is already greywater and waters our camelias, bouganvilla, and lemon trees. The new system will water our (currently brown) lawn. And our planned laundry greywater system (planned for next year) will water our other fruit trees and the hedges and groundcover in our front yard.

When we had our last drought the water department was doing information meetings at large employers - including my former employer. One of the statistics was that 70% of the tap water in SoCal went to irrigation and pools. I was shocked... what a waste of pottable water.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 09:06 PM   #120
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,645
We had a long and severe drought in Texas two years ago. Half the state areas that had trees burned to the ground. Lots of cattle and pig farmers went bust as did crop farmers. We were on rationing in Houston (known as a great swamp). We survived. California will too.
__________________
*********Go Astros!*********
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
drought


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
South Texas drought? socca Other topics 26 05-17-2009 10:36 AM
Set it and forget it retirement mugs FIRE and Money 34 03-13-2006 07:09 AM
Dont forget to change the oil in your computer... cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 13 01-11-2006 06:49 PM
Dont forget... cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 9 11-01-2005 01:19 PM
United Airlines wants to just 'Forget' Pension Promise..... Cut-Throat FIRE and Money 87 05-15-2005 10:16 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.