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Old 09-23-2008, 03:02 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
i like "my bad." i think it allows people to more readily take responsibility for their actions. its cuteness takes some edge off claiming blame without being so threatening that the one at fault might avoid upholding their own or otherwise shrug it off.
Maybe that's it--the cuteness annoys me when used by grown people. Only cute, short people or children should be allowed to use it.

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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
according to webster, gifting has been an intransitive verb since circa 1550. so get used to it: your bad.
It sounds pompous and fairy-godmotherish but I will have to get used to it; after all, the usage dates from 1550. Me bad.
Also, "your half-bad" because "gift" is a transitive verb according to Merriam-Webster.

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a picture of mine is my picture as in it is a picture which i possess.

a picture of me is my picture as in i am the person in the picture.
Ah, clarity--thanks from another non-native English speaker.
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:49 PM   #82
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according to webster, gift has been a verb since circa 1550. so get used to it already: your bad.
sorry but i'm not sure that was a bad, mostly that was just a rough draft or my fingers typing without my brain engaged. i corrected my sentence (per above) before you published yours.

i think gift can be used transitively or intransitively.

i.e.

transitive: i gifted an amount up to the irs annual tax exempt limit. (direct object of the verb gift being an amount.)

intransitive: i gifted generously. (a complete sentence with no direct object of the verb gift.)

or, to confuse further, here the transitive intransitive is used as the subject:

the gifting must be completed by december 31.

so now what you wished to have been only a noun, has been, um, verbalized as a noun. happy? ya gotta love this thing called language.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:15 PM   #83
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what's the, um, difference? webster shows different or differently as adverbially similar.
Perhaps that was Apple's point.

There are numerous other examples in everyday speech of people using adjectives in the place of adverbs. I'm sorry, I can't think of one offhand (offhandedly? :-) ), but it does happen frequently.

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Old 09-23-2008, 04:18 PM   #84
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"Noone" instead of "No one"
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:19 PM   #85
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lazy, I am just funnin'--no need to be sorry. (I hope that is doubly annoying to some: using funning for having fun and dropping the ending "g" like Sarah Paling does )

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intransitive: i gifted generously. (a complete sentence with no direct object of the verb gift.)
This intransitive use pained me. It pains me, and it will continue to pain me. (How about that--another noun used as a verb, albeit a transitive verb?)

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or, to confuse further, here the transitive intransitive is used as the subject:

the gifting must be completed by december 31.

so now what you wished to have been only a noun, has been, um, verbalized as a noun. happy? ya gotta love this thing called language.
Gifting in this sentence is a noun, a gerund, which also pains me. I mean the word "gifting"--not gerunds--pain me. Because it's the subject of the sentence, it can't be transitive or intransitive; I think only verbs can have transitivity.

Actually, as you said, I just need to get used to these uses of "gift". As I hear them more and more, they will not be so strange or painful.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:11 PM   #86
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webster shows different or differently as adverbially similar.
My bad.

Actually, I'm not convinced, and it still bugs me.

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There are numerous other examples in everyday speech of people using adjectives in the place of adverbs. I'm sorry, I can't think of one offhand (offhandedly? :-) ), but it does happen frequently.
Fresh cut flowers
Fresh baked cookies
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:51 PM   #87
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And there is the adding of "ly" to verbs (making than adverbs?) used by some to make them appear erudite (not seen much recently).
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:05 PM   #88
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Several years ago I was reading a newspaper article, and ran across: 'perineal garden'.
Home of the Venus Man-Trap. Thanks be to God.

Years ago I had a friend who studied "implied arts". She was a very nice person, but not quite ready for prime time.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:08 PM   #89
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lazy, I am just funnin'--no need to be sorry. (I hope that is doubly annoying to some: using funning for having fun and dropping the ending "g" like Sarah Paling does )
Hey, whatever Sarah says works for me.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:25 PM   #90
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Hey, whatever Sarah says works for me.

Ha
She's a perineal favorite...
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:27 PM   #91
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I am not a native English speaker and I make plenty of grammatical mistakes myself, so I have no right to criticize other people, but when someone says "you and I" (ex. between you and I) when it is supposed to be "you and me", it really annoys me.

It is interesting that I went through TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) in my early years and they always had questions on

picture of mine or picture of me
different from or different than

but I realize now that it doesn't matter which way you say it since many people (US born) say "picture of me" and most people say "different than".
Personal observation: Many of the people I have encountered whom I sensed learned English as a second language seem to speak better English than those of us who learned it as their primary language.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:33 PM   #92
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Personal observation: Many of the people I have encountered whom I sensed learned English as a second language seem to speak better English than those who learned it as their primary language. I am included in the group that learned English as a primary language.
The difference between being "taught" English and learning it as a native language...
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:48 PM   #93
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The difference between being "taught" English and learning it as a native language...
The other thing is that most of even very well educated ESL folks stick to a narrower set of constructions.

Some of the distinctions being made on this thread are way out of the mainstream of the way American English is actually spoken. If what you want is to be understood and accepted as "same as us" some of these ways of speaking would be counterproductive, unless you are in the English department of an elite university.

I can spot most errors-even the WSJ is full of words being used in an absolutely wrong sense. Of popular sources maybe only NYT is still very good, and of course the New Yorker where I am not sure I that I have ever seen a mistake.

Still, in speaking and most writing I speak like everyone else because my goal is not purity but easy flow.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:30 PM   #94
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the subtleties of english.

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lazy, I am just funnin'--no need to be sorry. (I hope that is doubly annoying to some: using funning for having fun...
that sorry was a courtesy, not an apology. that problem you have with gifting, i've with funning. funnin' just makes it worse so cut that out.

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This intransitive use pained me. It pains me, and it will continue to pain me. (How about that--another noun used as a verb, albeit a transitive verb?)
correct, transitive.

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Gifting in this sentence is a noun, a gerund, which also pains me. I mean the word "gifting"--not gerunds--pain me. Because it's the subject of the sentence, it can't be transitive or intransitive; I think only verbs can have transitivity.
i actually forgot that the name of the catagory of words verbalizing nouns is called a gerund. wow, that brings me right back to grade school. what a rush!

as to the trans/intrans referring just to verbs, not nouns, i was just funnin' ya.

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Actually, I'm not convinced, and it still bugs me.
just goes to show the evolving nature of language.

don't know if following web site is correct, just using as example...

New English words

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English, the second most spoken language in the world (Mandarin being the most spoken), has more words than any other language. But English speakers generally use only about 1% of the language. About one third of the more than one million English words are technical terms. Still, every decade new words are added to the English language. Here are some of them -
1940's
ack-ack, apartheid, atom bomb, baby-sit, barf, bazooka, cheeseburger, crash-land, flying saucer, gobbledygook
1950's
aerospace, alphanumeric, brainstorming, car wash, cha-cha, digitize, do-it-yourself, ethnohistory, in-house, meter maid
1960's
area code, ASCII, biohazard, Brownie point, crib death, doofus, disco, glitch, microwave oven, Op-Ed, sexism
1970's
airhead, bean counter, biofeedback, deadbeat dad, diskette, electronic mail, junk food, gentrify, surrogate mother
1980's
AIDS, boom box, caller ID, channel surf, cyberpunk, dis, fragile X syndrome, greenmail, sandwich generation, trophy wife, voice mail, wannabe
1990's
anatomically correct, bad hair day, brux, digerati, granny dumping, medicide, netnanny, olestra, soccer mom, step aerobics, uptalk, World Wide Web
granny dumping? i don't even want to know what that is. so it helps to keep the blood pressure lower if ya don't take the language strictly at its word.

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Still, in speaking and most writing I speak like everyone else because my goal is not purity but easy flow.
i would add that the goal also should be to speak and thereby, online, to write in the vernacular in the best way you can find that is most easily understood by the audience at hand. in other words, no texting, thank you (that wasn't a directed at you ha; just speaking generically.)

and while we're at it, generally, how about only using acronyms on second use and spelling them out on their first use so readers don't have to be interrupted to google them.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:34 PM   #95
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Because of the internet we do read a lot more from people that does not go through an editing process. Some of the gems I've run across in forums and blogs that I probably wouldn't have caught in conversation are:

"taken for granite"
"a blessing in the skies"

One thing that trips me up is when something is more commonly known by it's abbreviation so the letter is a consonant but it sounds like it starts with a vowel. This causes me "a" "an" issues with what I believe is correct versus what sounds natural.

Examples = Taking a MCAT exam, buying a HP computer, etc.

I remember I thought the thing on the edge of the road was a "curve" well into high school. Man that was embarrassing when I wrote that one on the board.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:46 PM   #96
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cha-cha
Cha-cha was only a contraction of the long used Cuban onomatopoetic cha-cha-cha, which describes the 3&4 of that 1 2 3&4 beat. cha-cha cha imitates the shuffling sound of shoes on dancefloors and pavement.

Shortening it to cha-cha never made sense, as it destroys the sense of it. When Cuban teachers could more easily come over here they always started by insisting that it was "cha-cha-cha", not "cha-cha"; and second that it is 1 2 cha-cha-cha-, not Cha-cha cha 3 4.

Well, I guess that is a bit pedantic but doing it that way makes the rhythm much more enjoyable.

Ha
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:03 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by tiuxiu View Post
Because of the internet we do read a lot more from people that does not go through an editing process. Some of the gems I've run across in forums and blogs that I probably wouldn't have caught in conversation are:

"taken for granite"
"a blessing in the skies"

One thing that trips me up is when something is more commonly known by it's abbreviation so the letter is a consonant but it sounds like it starts with a vowel. This causes me "a" "an" issues with what I believe is correct versus what sounds natural.

Examples = Taking a MCAT exam, buying a HP computer, etc.

I remember I thought the thing on the edge of the road was a "curve" well into high school. Man that was embarrassing when I wrote that one on the board.
love the granite. interesting a/an point and nice try but actually you go by the sound, like in a deal. if it doesn't sound right, run. sometimes you go with your gut. which is also interesting, because some of grammar does go by look, as i mentioned previously, the look of a period alongside a quotation mark. however, a & an usage goes by sound. if it sounds like a vowel, use an as in an mcat exam.

(an)other example: a history, an hour.

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Cha-cha was only a contraction of the long used Cuban onomatopoetic cha-cha-cha, which describes the 3&4 of that 1 2 3&4 beat. cha-cha cha imitates the shuffling sound of shoes on dancefloors and pavement...
interesting but yikes, stop that. i thought i was losing it. when did i ever say cha-cha? i had to look to see the reference which was in a quote to which i referred. so stop trying to confuse me with what you think i said.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:22 PM   #98
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She's a perineal favorite...
Good one! You so bad....
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:46 AM   #99
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here's a fun little conundrum.

provide an example of the a/an rule whereby a instead of an is used before the vowel.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:49 AM   #100
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Years ago I had a friend who studied "implied arts". She was a very nice person, but not quite ready for prime time.
haha, this reminded me of a woman I met who wanted to go to Finland to study carpentry. I'll let you guys figure out why...

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Many of the people I have encountered whom I sensed learned English as a second language seem to speak better English than those of us who learned it as their primary language.
Rustward, this is my experience with Italian as well. Many Italians use the subjunctive incorrectly.. I'm not perfect at it, but they are always amazed that I can do it at all. It's very common to hear them say "if I was..", instead of "if I were...". Even TV presenters abandon the subjunctive, I notice.

lazy, without stopping to think much about it, I'd say some "u" words.. eg., a useless thread, a utensil, a universe.. yet we'd say AN usurious lender, AN utter disaster, AN understanding.
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