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haha · 03-22-2011, 09:39 AM

FT.com / Middle East & North Africa - Rift over command of Libya campaign

Gotta love those Frenchies, like John Wayne they walk alone.

Ha

brewer12345 · 03-22-2011, 09:51 AM

Considering NATO is basically a US tool, why wouldn't they walk?

FIREd · 03-22-2011, 10:31 AM

I don't even understand why NATO has to be involved at all. NATO was designed to be a defensive alliance and, as far as I know, Libya has not attacked a single member state.

IIRC, NATO was not involved in the first Persian gulf war (rightly so). Individual UN-member states worked side-by-side to enforce a UN resolution, just like they are doing in Libya.

Besides, many in Washington have demonstrated over the years their own disdain for NATO and their willingness to walk alone, so I am a bit baffled by this article.

**MichaelB** · 03-22-2011, 11:06 AM

Is it just a coincidence that the UK and US pushed for action in Libya just as some are trying to reduce military spending?

vicente solano · 03-22-2011, 12:08 PM

Until a week ago the so called rebels had Gadafi against the wall, and, strangely enough, they were very well armed for just being a spontaneous civilian revolt organized via Facebook an Twitter.... Overnight, all the news was talking about massacre on the civilians....and rebels little more than throwing stones at Gadafi´s loyals armed to the teeth.

To be objective, shouldn´t we talking about two armed factions with the civilians in the middle. And a few countries taking sides with a supposedly aspiring democratic group that nobody really knows squat about.

Am I too far off the mark in my observations?

And, to compound the real nature of things, here comes the issue of de division among the western countries, NATO and whatnot and the real objective/target of the whole operation..... And the blockade and air control supposedly set up only for the sake of preventing the killing of civilians. And oil no being the issue at all, perish the thought....

Well, allow me to be rather sceptic about the motivations of all parties involved in this mess.

brewer12345 · 03-22-2011, 12:11 PM

If this is all humantarian in nature with no oil involved, why didn't anyone intervene in Rwanda?

FIREd · 03-22-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicente solano

Until a week ago the so called rebels had Gadafi against the wall, and, strangely enough, they were very well armed for just being a spontaneous civilian revolt organized via Facebook an Twitter.... Overnight, all the news was talking about massacre on the civilians....and rebels little more than throwing stones at Gadafi´s loyals armed to the teeth.

To be objective, shouldn´t we talking about two armed factions with the civilians in the middle. And a few countries taking sides with a supposedly aspiring democratic group that nobody really knows squat about.

Am I too far off the mark in my observations?

And, to compound the real nature of things, here comes the issue of de division among the western countries, NATO and whatnot and the real objective/target of the whole operation..... And the blockade and air control supposedly set up only for the sake of preventing the killing of civilians. And oil no being the issue at all, perish the thought....

Well, allow me to be rather sceptic about the motivations of all parties involved in this mess.

Since Spain joined the coalition one hour ago, do you think your government joined in for a share of the oil?

ronin · 03-22-2011, 01:22 PM

I heard the latest is that the French surrendered.

vicente solano · 03-22-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FD

Since Spain joined the coalition one hour ago, do you think your government joined in for a share of the oil?

FD, I don´t know the reasons. According to our Goverment, we have stepped in as a result of a decision of UN made for humanitarian reasons. And us being major

players in any and all chivalry projects and ardent defenders of civil rights.......

We went along for the ride, it seems

.

FD, don´t get me started.....

**MichaelB** · 03-22-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

If this is all humantarian in nature with no oil involved, why didn't anyone intervene in Rwanda?

Exactly.

FIREd · 03-22-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicente solano

FD, don´t get me started.....

I promise, I won't...

Texas Proud · 03-22-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicente solano

Until a week ago the so called rebels had Gadafi against the wall, and, strangely enough, they were very well armed for just being a spontaneous civilian revolt organized via Facebook an Twitter.... Overnight, all the news was talking about massacre on the civilians....and rebels little more than throwing stones at Gadafi´s loyals armed to the teeth.

To be objective, shouldn´t we talking about two armed factions with the civilians in the middle. And a few countries taking sides with a supposedly aspiring democratic group that nobody really knows squat about.

Am I too far off the mark in my observations?

And, to compound the real nature of things, here comes the issue of de division among the western countries, NATO and whatnot and the real objective/target of the whole operation..... And the blockade and air control supposedly set up only for the sake of preventing the killing of civilians. And oil no being the issue at all, perish the thought....

Well, allow me to be rather sceptic about the motivations of all parties involved in this mess.

I think there are a few different factions at work....

There are the civilians that go into the fighting and get slaughtered...

There are the civilians that have taken military weapons from depots etc. that were part of the army and have been doing a bit better...

There are parts of the army that have split and are now fighting to get rid of Gadafi... they have not been on the TV much here...

I do not think it is about oil... heck, oil was flowing out before this and will be flowing out after this... why does everybody think that because there is oil we get involved....

Texas Proud · 03-22-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

If this is all humantarian in nature with no oil involved, why didn't anyone intervene in Rwanda?

Because both sides were doing the same thing... and neither side was an 'enemy'.... and who really cares about a backward African country

What I would ask... if why didn't anybody intervene in China? (well, we do know the answer to that one)....

brewer12345 · 03-22-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

and who really cares about a backward African country

Like Libya?

haha · 03-22-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

What I would ask... if why didn't anybody intervene in China? (well, we do know the answer to that one)....

We'll be keeping our humanitarian missions out of North Korea and Pakistan too. In a short while we can add Iran to that list.

I can't think why.

Ha

haha · 03-22-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Like Libya?

But a backward African country with 1.6 million bpd of light sweet crude, doncha know.

Ha

mh · 03-22-2011, 03:57 PM

Robin Williams take on french "attitude" ...

YouTube - Robin Williams - The French

**MichaelB** · 03-22-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345

Like Libya?

There you go gettin' all technical again.

**MichaelB** · 03-22-2011, 04:01 PM

Juan Pablo Perez Alfonso was a distinguished Venezuelan statesman and diplomat (a rare breed) dedicated to improving his country and was jailed for his activism and political beliefs. He was one of the founders of OPEC but always thought it did more harm than good. His most famous quote:

Quote:

Ten years from now, twenty years from now, you will see: oil will bring us ruin. Oil is the Devil's excrement