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Old 01-01-2012, 12:33 PM   #181
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Caution!

Just a note of caution. My mother also supported my dad through college and then stayed home with 3 stairstep children when he went to work. Then, years later, I watched my father manipulate my mother into not fighting for everything she was worth by dangling the "you need to be reasonable, caring and understanding because we might get back together" card. He even went so far as to take her out on "dates" and going to counseling. When it was too late to change anything we found he was planning to marry his secretary as soon as the divorce was final and there was never a chance of a reconciliation. Also note he asked his company for a transfer to Texas from California before leaving my mother exactly 6 months and 1 day after establishing residency here. No alimony in Texas. Just a thought......

2fer (who has also been lurking lately)
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #182
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Catching up late with this thread, sorry. Good luck, Marathoner. Please keep us informed and good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathoner View Post
It's just more having to realize that the life I thought I was going to lead even last month is no longer reality.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #183
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My boss is a sociopath/pyschopath and I've done a lot of research to figure what motivates him. Everything I've read says that therapy can't cure a sociopath, it just makes them better sociopaths.

The best description I found of how these people operate was in the book Snakes in Suits by Bablak and Hare. It focuses primarily on the workplace, but also talks about personnel relationships. They use to similar methods to form bonds with other people in all circumstances. Having a strong bond with a sociopath is like having a drug addiction and dissolving that relationship is like going though drug withdrawal. That is an apt description of what I observe at my workplace.
I bet a sociopath is the reason why a polygraph is not admissable in court. Sociopaths would probably pass with flying colors and they don't have a compass of right and wrong like the rest of us.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #184
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I thought I should update since the thread has been revived a bit and there has been much that has happened. I could write a novel, but basically to make a long story short, recent events (Penn State scandal) brought up memories in him that he had repressed for nearly 30 years. I did some reading, and his actions/behaviors are textbook for what he went through.

He is very confused, going back and forth almost daily on whether he wanted to work things out or not. Once I found out about his background, I was more sympathetic about what was going on and would have been willing to give us another shot since he's getting the help he needs through counseling. He just needed to maintain no contact with her while we worked on our relationship to see if it could/should be saved.

I would tell myself I was done, but there was always a little glimmer of hope that things would work out. On Jan 1, he came home, sobbing, asked me to give him another shot -- that we needed to come to a decision together. I said as long as he tells her no contact while we figure things out, and total honesty. He agreed. We had a bunch of really long talks and good times Sunday and Monday. Lunch, football game, museum, etc. At that point, I would have put our odds of divorcing at 80%.

Then, last night, he accidentally left his e-mail up on the computer, and she'd contacted him. He responded, and after several more e-mails, they said "I love you" to each other. He'd told me that he had feelings for her but didn't know if he loved her or not. I am a visual person, so seeing that written out drained any remaining love I might have had for him. I could almost feel it leaving my body. I deserve so much better.

I felt this rage and anger that I hadn't before then or even ever in my life. It was actually really scary. I got really hot and my head was a bit cloudy and I was thinking about doing something violent towards him, though I restrained myself. I confronted him, and of course he was so sorry, etc.

This morning, I woke up with a profound sense of peace and calm. I know now that we are divorcing, and there's nothing that he can do to save the marriage, even if he decides that what he wants. He is far too damaged and couldn't even last one day of no contact with her.

If I'd made the final decision before today, I think I might have always wondered if I made the right decision, but this confirmed things for me.

I read "The Sociopath Next Door" and I don't think he is one. He does have traits of antisocial personality disorder, but a lot of those are also traits of people who have suffered like he has -- and his was of the worst kind in terms of age when it happened, who did it, duration, type, etc. Quite frankly, it's amazing that he's as normal as he is and isn't in prison somewhere.

This is a way condensed version of everything -- I was starting to question my sanity but now I know I'm going to be OK. I have a couple of j*b leads (mine ends in March -- I'm shutting a company down so need to stay for bonus/severance) and once I get one, I can find an apartment near work and begin my new life.

I will always care about him in some way. I feel terrible for what he's been through. I would have been there for him to help him through everything, but he made decisions and acted in ways that make that impossible.

It will be an interesting few months as I move on with my life and we try to hammer out a settlement. I'm getting excited about ER again! Since he wasn't on board (but pretended to be), I don't think that would have been possible with him. But, as a single lady with a well-paying career and low expenses, I am excited to see my investments grow. Oh, while we were talking, he took full blame for everything, said I couldn't have been a better wife, and his only complaint was that I focused on the future and wanted to retire early. He then conceded he was glad I did as we will both leave the marriage with a significant amount of retirement savings and a fair amount of cash. And he worries about how he will manage his money without me, but that's not my concern!!!

Thanks again for the wise words throughout my ordeal. I don't think I was in a place to really internalize them when this first happened (tomorrow is still only the one month anniversary of me finding out) but yesterday was the turning point. I suspect I may have some tough days yet ahead (I'm pretty certain Jan 1 wasn't the last time he's going to beg me to work things out) so my plan is to collate all of the wise words from this board, from my real-life friends, and elsewhere, and refer to them should my resolve weaken.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:18 AM   #185
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Time will heal everything. Best wishes to you, Marathoner. Happy new year!
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:32 AM   #186
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I'm glad that this became your decision. Good luck moving forward, it looks like you are ready for the changes that will come. Thanks for the update.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:23 PM   #187
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Marathoner,

If you are for sure that you are going into devorce, protect yourself as others on this thread have stated. Soon to be ex's cometimes play nice to delay things so they can rearranged accounts, etc. to benefit themselves. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, but when emotions are involved sometimes we can be taken advantage of. I procrastinated on filing for divorce (that I didn't want) because of a slim hope that he would come to his senses. During my procrastination he emptied bank accounts. The only way I could protect myself from going to the poor house was to file for divorce.

Protect yourself. This will pass and you will look back some day and probably thank him for doing you a favor.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:54 PM   #188
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Marathoner...you are probably right. It won't be the last time he begs to reconcile nor will it be the last time you feel the pull of your emotions or desires. This all came about fairly quickly and so I suspect you too are experiencing adrenalin based anger, shock, surprise whatever you want to call it. Once that passes, the real decisions can be made. Give yourself time to process all that the divorce will mean..while protecting yourself in the process. Just because he may want to move at lightning speed does not mean you have to. Unless of course you want to. I suppose I believe the decision to divorce ....is best made....when things are not in crisis mode. Things sound like they are still in crisis mode. But that is me. This is about you. There is certainly nothing wrong with going thru the steps of protecting yourself but give yourself a break. You do not have to make the final decision about divorce...right away. But you can start hammering out a property settlement/separation agreement, you can start protecting your finances...etc. You can start moving in the direction of divorce. The divorce is the final chapter. You are in a different one at the moment. My guess is you are in the first chapter.


There is a book I found particularly helpful when going thru a crisis.
It's called "In the meantime". It's well worth the read.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Here is the link on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Meantime-Findi.../dp/0684841363
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:58 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathoner View Post
This morning, I woke up with a profound sense of peace and calm
Sometimes your heart understands before your head.

Thanks for the update. You have been through hell and are coming out of it with a lot in your favor for a very good future.

Good luck, keep us updated.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:09 PM   #190
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I don't like this guy!
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #191
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Sue J's post reminds me of a saying I used to have painted on my bedroom wall.

"sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye"

But it appears as though your eyes have caught up to your heart. Best of wishes!
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #192
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Best wishes on your new life without him.
Don't let him play the guilt card on his childhood abuse - it has happened to a lot of us (the percentage of kids being molested is shockingly high), but it's no excuse to make the innocent people in our lives feel guilty about our adult problems (or lack of).
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:08 AM   #193
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I'm sorry about the abuse and whatever bad he has in his history, but in an explicit agreement that couldn't have been more clear and direct he flat out lied to you about no contact with his mistress. He can never be trusted. It has nothing to do with abuse or history, it has to do with being willing to lie without compunction. He's using the abuse card like everything else as rationalization to do or say whatever he wants.

Odds are good he will make another try at reconciliation, or at least try to appear that way to delay or manipulate the situation. Try to remember the fact: He cannot be trusted no matter how apparently sincere. He's so good at lying he probably lies to himself.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #194
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In the meantime by Ayanla Azant great book
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:29 AM   #195
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Marathoner,

A concern to keep in mind is that statistics show that people who have suffered abuse as kids are more likely to end up abusive when they grow up than people who have not been abused. He's already shown that his word is not good.

The caution is after it sinks in to him that it's over, you do not wish to take him back, that he will accept that peacefully.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:14 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathoner View Post
I am still in a bit of a shock, but until 2 weeks ago I thought I had a wonderful marriage to a man who shared my beliefs and outlook on life.

That all changed when he told me he'd been having an affair for the past 2 weeks with a coworker and was divorcing me to be with her! I thought he was joking at first, but he was serious. He is throwing away a good 10 year marriage for a 2 week fling, and not willing to try to save the relationship.

I know he's making a huge mistake, but I must carry on and figure out what's wrong with me that I'd even consider staying with a cheater.

Anyway, the only complaint he had about me was that I think too much about the future. We'd discussed FIRE and he always told me he wanted to do so, but now he's told me that he really likes his job, is planning on working 60 hours per week for the rest of his life.

I am only in my early 30s, so I know I will come out just fine. I just know that divorce is one of the worst things that can happen to one's finances. Lots of changes on the horizon, and I hope I can still find a way to FIRE.
I'm justing coming to this thread that is 10 pages long. So after reading the update, I read the original post just above. Wow, this whole thing is only 1 month old.

A simple thought on this. Trust is a fragile thing and once lost I don't think it can be gotten back.

If you are in your 30's, you are lucky to have found out the truth now.

P.S. This is coming from a retired guy who has been married for 40+ years. Guys are horny in their 30's but that's no excuse.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathoner View Post
I thought I should update since the thread has been revived a bit and there has been much that has happened. I could write a novel, but basically to make a long story short, recent events (Penn State scandal) brought up memories in him that he had repressed for nearly 30 years. I did some reading, and his actions/behaviors are textbook for what he went through.

He is very confused, going back and forth almost daily on whether he wanted to work things out or not. Once I found out about his background, I was more sympathetic about what was going on and would have been willing to give us another shot since he's getting the help he needs through counseling. He just needed to maintain no contact with her while we worked on our relationship to see if it could/should be saved.

I would tell myself I was done, but there was always a little glimmer of hope that things would work out. On Jan 1, he came home, sobbing, asked me to give him another shot -- that we needed to come to a decision together. I said as long as he tells her no contact while we figure things out, and total honesty. He agreed. We had a bunch of really long talks and good times Sunday and Monday. Lunch, football game, museum, etc. At that point, I would have put our odds of divorcing at 80%.

Then, last night, he accidentally left his e-mail up on the computer, and she'd contacted him. He responded, and after several more e-mails, they said "I love you" to each other. He'd told me that he had feelings for her but didn't know if he loved her or not. I am a visual person, so seeing that written out drained any remaining love I might have had for him. I could almost feel it leaving my body. I deserve so much better.

I felt this rage and anger that I hadn't before then or even ever in my life. It was actually really scary. I got really hot and my head was a bit cloudy and I was thinking about doing something violent towards him, though I restrained myself. I confronted him, and of course he was so sorry, etc.

This morning, I woke up with a profound sense of peace and calm. I know now that we are divorcing, and there's nothing that he can do to save the marriage, even if he decides that what he wants. He is far too damaged and couldn't even last one day of no contact with her.

If I'd made the final decision before today, I think I might have always wondered if I made the right decision, but this confirmed things for me.

I read "The Sociopath Next Door" and I don't think he is one. He does have traits of antisocial personality disorder, but a lot of those are also traits of people who have suffered like he has -- and his was of the worst kind in terms of age when it happened, who did it, duration, type, etc. Quite frankly, it's amazing that he's as normal as he is and isn't in prison somewhere.

This is a way condensed version of everything -- I was starting to question my sanity but now I know I'm going to be OK. I have a couple of j*b leads (mine ends in March -- I'm shutting a company down so need to stay for bonus/severance) and once I get one, I can find an apartment near work and begin my new life.

I will always care about him in some way. I feel terrible for what he's been through. I would have been there for him to help him through everything, but he made decisions and acted in ways that make that impossible.

It will be an interesting few months as I move on with my life and we try to hammer out a settlement. I'm getting excited about ER again! Since he wasn't on board (but pretended to be), I don't think that would have been possible with him. But, as a single lady with a well-paying career and low expenses, I am excited to see my investments grow. Oh, while we were talking, he took full blame for everything, said I couldn't have been a better wife, and his only complaint was that I focused on the future and wanted to retire early. He then conceded he was glad I did as we will both leave the marriage with a significant amount of retirement savings and a fair amount of cash. And he worries about how he will manage his money without me, but that's not my concern!!!

Thanks again for the wise words throughout my ordeal. I don't think I was in a place to really internalize them when this first happened (tomorrow is still only the one month anniversary of me finding out) but yesterday was the turning point. I suspect I may have some tough days yet ahead (I'm pretty certain Jan 1 wasn't the last time he's going to beg me to work things out) so my plan is to collate all of the wise words from this board, from my real-life friends, and elsewhere, and refer to them should my resolve weaken.
I almost sounds like he's suffering from mental illness. While I am not condoning his behavior, all of this seems sudden. I am not a psychologist but it seems bizarre, almost like something triggered it?

He may have lost his touch on reality. He has issues........
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #198
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There is life after divorce, and I didn't fully realize at the time how "up to my butt in alligators" I was. In the immediate aftermath I just took the position of "chalk it up to tuition" and get on with the rest of my life.

Next July will be 25 years with DW, and I wouldn't appreciate her as much as I do without having been through that experience first.

So although the days are perhaps a bit too cloudy/foggy to see it now, there is a brighter future.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #199
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Next July will be 25 years with DW, and I wouldn't appreciate her as much as I do without having been through that experience first.
Ditto!

Divorced my first husband because I just couldn’t get along with any of his girlfriends… he was a womanizer, but somehow that was all my fault.

A few years later I married the love of my life, this year we will celebrate 22 years, and like you I would not be able appreciate him near as much, if I hadn’t been married to such a loser the first time.


Hang in there, things do get better!
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #200
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Marathoner,

Again, sorry that you are going through this.

I'm glad to hear that you now have gotten total 100% clarity on needing to divorce. There's nothing worse than wavering and thinking "What if?"

You've done all you can to try and salvage your marriage. It sure sounds like your husband certainly is not playing fair -- he "wants his cake and wants to eat it, too".

This is a rough patch that you are going through. Down the road, you'll be able to look back and know you did the right thing.

I wish you clarity, calmness, and strength to get through this.

omni
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