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Old 12-19-2011, 12:43 PM   #61
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Lawyering up is probably the biggest mistake you can make! I would consult with the top 2-3 Divorce lawyers in your county....!
Umm, okay, so this isn't lawyering up? What do you think the top 2-3 divorce lawyers in a county will advise someone in her situation? Why wouldn't you want your own lawyer to represent you in dissolving a partnership of any kind?
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:43 PM   #62
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So many of these comments have hit the nail on the head. He has severe problems from his childhood that he never addressed but swept under the rug. All appeared to go well, but they are surfacing now. Mental illness also runs in his family and I suspect that some of that is coming into play now.

When I first met this woman at a welcome party in July, my first thought was that I felt bad for my husband for having to work with someone who so closely resembled his mother (mannerisms, looks, etc.) So I think part of it is seeking love from someone who reminds him of his mother since he didn't get it from her. It's sick.

A friend of mine who used to work at the same hospital told me that if I were to call their department head and let her know what's going on, they would both be severely disciplined, possibly fired.

I was willing to take him back after the affair and we did go to one counseling session which was very helpful, but ultimately he decided that his future is with her and he's not willing to try to reconcile with me. That's when I started reflecting about the relationship and realized that I ignored/explained away a lot of his issues. I still would have been willing to be there for him as he worked through this, but he's made his choice, so now I have to move on as well.

While it is sad, and it will be a difficult few months, I do believe that ultimately I will be better off without him. I'm certainly not ready for another relationship, but I'm hopeful that at some point I will meet someone with whom I can be even happier.

I do realize that my early retirement dreams (which he said he shared with me) are not the reason for the divorce -- it's basically about his unresolved childhood issues. However, the only negative things he said about me was that I think too much about the future, specifically about ER, and that I like to read and he doesn't.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #63
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However, the only negative things he said about me was that I think too much about the future, specifically about ER, and that I like to read and he doesn't.
In your future these are two qualities that the right person will find to be are exactly what they are looking for in a partner.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #64
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You sound like you have incredibly good mental health and maturity---and you're only 32! You'll come out of this okay and FIRE can still be a possibility for you----I RE at 52 making a low salary (husband also made a low salary).

And as a fellow reader, I can't begin to imagine how liking to read is a negative. You didn't force him to read. You didn't make him read to you. Were you supposed to spend every free moment just gazing adoringly at him?
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:02 PM   #65
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A friend of mine who used to work at the same hospital told me that if I were to call their department head and let her know what's going on, they would both be severely disciplined, possibly fired.

.

I have worked at several hospitals and witnessed a lot of affairs with the married Physicians and no one was ever disciplined. Unfortunately it is one of the things that happen . There are a lot of young nurses who want to marry Physicians and don't care if they are already married , ugly or boring .
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #66
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You single guys, note how fast posters, including the men, jump all over the husband, and make very aggressive money grabbing suggestions, notwithstanding that we know almost nothing about the rest of the story.

And this is not just this board; this is American society. You cannot change it, but you can avoid it, or perhaps abort it even if you are already married, if you are not already wealthy or do not have a very high paying job.

Do you want to post an unlimited bond, to be paid on demand to the woman that you are divorcing from, for whatever reason? Do you want the person that you have loved to set out to try the tricks suggested in this thread? Could this poison your attitude toward women? Will you perhaps look at your bride and think, hmm, I sure hope that I will forever fit her wishes, desires and fantasies, whatever they may become, or else I am public enemy #1, and she is the prosecutor?

Is there any freedom at all in this? Nope, it is just punishment for not staying the course, a course that you may not have much interest in anymore. Is it possible that people change, both men and women? Note that your wife can lose interest in you, and this will generally be taken to be your fault also.

Also note that the big justification for this woman-first bias is usually "It's for the children!" And where are the children in this case, or in many other cases?

Consider that however much you may like women, love women, respect women, it may be to your best interests to avoid letting one of them get a strong grip on your most tender parts.

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Old 12-19-2011, 01:11 PM   #67
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Is there any freedom at all in this? Nope, it is just punishment for not staying the course, a course that you may not have much interest in anymore. Is it possible that people change, both men and women? Note that your wife can lose interest in you, and this will generally be taken to be your fault also.

Ha
Sure, any of this can happen. The problem is this guy went out to play house before he gave his wife the courtesy of discussing it with her. If the OP's info is correct the guy should pay IMHO.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:14 PM   #68
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It is difficult for me to understand why you haven't helped him along with this process by moving his things outside the front door.
Perhaps with a gravity assist. Or a catapult.

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Thanks again for all of the support. I have read everything and will continue to reread them when I feel down.
I have an appointment with a lawyer today. He is supposed to be very good. I do have a couple of other people to talk to if I don't like this guy.
Brewer's point (he beat me to it) is that if you talk to the best lawyers in your area about your divorce case, then hypothetically they're supposed to recuse themselves from his business if he tries to hire them. Of course now you can confirm that with "your" lawyer.

He's had more time to plan this than you have, and you have no idea what surprises he's been able to set up. If you haven't already then you should change the passwords on all your financial accounts, your computer, your e-mail addresses, landline voicemail, and your cell phone. Think about changing your work account passwords too. I guess that also applies to social-media accounts like Facebook & Twitter. If he has your logins then it doesn't matter who "owns" your accounts.

You could immediately freeze (or even cancel) the credit cards that you share with him. You could apply for credit in your own name or work from cash for a while.

You might want to change the locks on your residence. It'll discourage him from attempting any appeals or "reunions".

You might even want to track down all your car keys and consider changing that lock as well.

If you two share any joint accounts then you should move at least half the money to accounts only owned by you.

You don't have to call his workplace. Your lawyer would be well within their rights to contact the supervisors of both your spouse and his girlfriend to ask for depositions on their behavior and performance.

In the more distant future, you're going to want to review all your financial plans to remove him from powers of attorney, insurance policies, IRA/401(k) beneficiary designations, medical directives... that's probably only a partial list.

I think the good news is that he revealed his colors so "early" in life. You're right-- you're glad that there are no kids, multi-decade histories, or other ties to him.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:20 PM   #69
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Is there any freedom at all in this? Nope, it is just punishment for not staying the course, a course that you may not have much interest in anymore. Is it possible that people change, both men and women?
While I agree with this to a certain extent, I paid for his expenses while he went to school (private med school, so $$$), kept the house running, took care of all of the details so he could have a good life, and in the past 2 years paid off over $70k of his student loans.

He promised me that if I would support him through this, once he was a doctor and our debts were paid off, I could focus my life on something more fulfilling to me -- volunteering at or maybe even starting my own nonprofit. I held up my end of the bargain, and he's changing the rules mid-game.

Had we both been professionals with decent salaries and this happened, I wouldn't be seeking any alimony. However, I am out well over $100k that I invested in his school. It's only fair that I get to see some of the rewards. Especially when I was blindsided by this. Even he admits that this has nothing to do with me or what kind of wife I was. He takes full blame for the affair and the aftermath.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:23 PM   #70
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Give it a rest, Ha. You will note in my post that I used a qualifying phrase ("as presented"). All we know is one side of the story and have no obvious reason to disbelieve it. Assuming reality matches the posts by OP, I have absoluetly no problem with her attorney taking everything there is to get and leaving this scumbag in tatters. He made a commitment, was supported (financially and otherwise) for many years, and now as he is about to finally reap the fruits of all that support he does not want to stick around any more. Convenient, isn't it? I hope her lawyer fillets him with a rusty, dull knife.

Now, if this were a mutual dissolution, I might be somewhat more sympathetic to your viewpoint. But that does not appear to be the case here.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:34 PM   #71
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While I agree with this to a certain extent, I paid for his expenses while he went to school (private med school, so $$$), kept the house running, took care of all of the details so he could have a good life, and in the past 2 years paid off over $70k of his student loans.

He promised me that if I would support him through this, once he was a doctor and our debts were paid off, I could focus my life on something more fulfilling to me -- volunteering at or maybe even starting my own nonprofit. I held up my end of the bargain, and he's changing the rules mid-game.

Had we both been professionals with decent salaries and this happened, I wouldn't be seeking any alimony. However, I am out well over $100k that I invested in his school. It's only fair that I get to see some of the rewards. Especially when I was blindsided by this. Even he admits that this has nothing to do with me or what kind of wife I was. He takes full blame for the affair and the aftermath.
I understand, and on the info presented I really sympathize with you. I think it may be risky for spouses to sacrifice to make a big jump in the other spouse's education and job prospects.

Divorce musings are just a minor hobby of mine. It has nothing to do with your situation at all. I do know that the New Doc finding a new woman to go with his new Porsche and new clothes is not really uncommon. A long time a ago I was a lifeguard at a pool frequented by residents and their wives. Peyton Place all the way!

I think men are fine, women are fine, but marriage is a risk that many of us perhaps should not take.

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I hope her lawyer fillets him with a rusty, dull knife.
Attaboy Brewer!


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Old 12-19-2011, 01:40 PM   #72
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You're coping amazingly well, and I'm extremely impressed by your posts. Still feel very bad, but you're amazing, so you'll be fine!
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:54 PM   #73
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Yes. He had dreams of going to med school but didn't think he could do it. I showed him how we could make that happen, and I supported him through applying for school, school, residency, 1.5 years of fellowship, paid at least $70k of his student loans as well as all living expenses since I had a good job.
The emotional scumminess of what he is doing aside, does he not realize what you might be entitled to financially? As someone already said, lawyer up. Take him for everything he's got and his future earnings! Depending on which state you are in you could be entitled to a lot. And there is no reason you should let him slide on any of the money.

And wow, right before Christmas? How classy of him...
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:58 PM   #74
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Is there any freedom at all in this? Nope, it is just punishment for not staying the course, a course that you may not have much interest in anymore. Is it possible that people change, both men and women? Note that your wife can lose interest in you, and this will generally be taken to be your fault also.
Ha
I can accept the fact that people, and their desires, change, but I won't accept someone not facing up to their financial responsibilities.

We're not talking about who paid for dinners, lunches, the occasional trip to the movie, or who gets to keep the record collection. In this particular case we're talking about 70K of student loans, which he has told her that he doesn't want to pay her back for.

That's the part that gets my goat.

I had a friend who's soon-to-be ex-wife made very unreasonable (in my estimation) financial demands on him during their divorce. It was equally annoying to me. In that case, I took the side of the guy because I thought that he was the one being taken advantage of.

It's about fairness to me; not about one partner getting a free ride.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:06 PM   #75
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Take him for everything he's got and his future earnings!
If you don't mind me saying, I don't agree with this attitude. Trying to make someone pay for an emotional hurt they have caused by hitting them in the pocketbook is, I think, one of the uglier sides of our litigious society.

I don't believe this is what Marathoner was thinking of; I imagine she just wants her 70K (or most of it) back, which is fair.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:07 PM   #76
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Perhaps with a gravity assist. Or a catapult.


Brewer's point (he beat me to it) is that if you talk to the best lawyers in your area about your divorce case, then hypothetically they're supposed to recuse themselves from his business if he tries to hire them. Of course now you can confirm that with "your" lawyer.

He's had more time to plan this than you have, and you have no idea what surprises he's been able to set up. If you haven't already then you should change the passwords on all your financial accounts, your computer, your e-mail addresses, landline voicemail, and your cell phone. Think about changing your work account passwords too. I guess that also applies to social-media accounts like Facebook & Twitter. If he has your logins then it doesn't matter who "owns" your accounts.

You could immediately freeze (or even cancel) the credit cards that you share with him. You could apply for credit in your own name or work from cash for a while.

You might want to change the locks on your residence. It'll discourage him from attempting any appeals or "reunions".

You might even want to track down all your car keys and consider changing that lock as well.

If you two share any joint accounts then you should move at least half the money to accounts only owned by you.

You don't have to call his workplace. Your lawyer would be well within their rights to contact the supervisors of both your spouse and his girlfriend to ask for depositions on their behavior and performance.

In the more distant future, you're going to want to review all your financial plans to remove him from powers of attorney, insurance policies, IRA/401(k) beneficiary designations, medical directives... that's probably only a partial list.

I think the good news is that he revealed his colors so "early" in life. You're right-- you're glad that there are no kids, multi-decade histories, or other ties to him.
Excellent post. I helped a woman leave her husband once for complicated reasons (that had nothing to do with any involvement with me!). She spent almost 2 years preparing and he was clueless the entire time. She did most of the things you mentioned and those she did not do she had prepared for (changing locks, moving money). She even had stashed things with a lawyer so that actions could be set in motion on literally a moment's notice when and if she decided to kick him out.

When the time came she made two phone calls, one to me and my wife and the other to her lawyer. Things happened very quickly after that and were basically complete in just a few days. I think his head was spinning.

The point is, if he planned this at all there could be a lot more going on than you know about and it is important to get a pro involved who will work on your behalf objectively.

And just a note, I agree 100% with changing the locks. But in the situation I dealt with the locks were changed right away but the husband returned and broke in a couple of times to get "his" stuff. Reporting this to the police did very little good until there was a restraining order (routine where we are) because until then the police considered him to have equal right to the property. They even suggested that he could have her arrested for locking him out or holding his things.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:08 PM   #77
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Ha, I agree that men can get the short end of the stick (and I'm acknowledging this as a woman!). I don't understand why a wedding is the "bride's day" when it takes a groom to make a woman a bride. I really don't understand why people stand at a wedding when the bride walks in (what did she do to earn the extra respect? Have an extra X chromosome? Different anatomical parts?). I think it's outrageous that fathers can be denied their rights to their children when parents divorce.

I also understand that people can grow apart. Marriage obviously isn't forever anymore. But----Marathoner's husband didn't ask for a divorce until at least two weeks of having extramarital sex. He didn't do the honorable thing and admit that he just wasn't feeling it anymore and wanted out. It's almost like he had to test the goods of someone else before he could decide that yes, he wanted out.

There's two sides to every story, yes. But Marathoner is coming across a very rational person without any other agenda than to tell her story.

I think most women don't deserve long-term alimony since they are now capable of working and supporting themselves. But in cases like this, I think the supporting spouse at least deserves the reimbursement alimony. Yup, Marathoner didn't support her husband through school just to be nice. She wasn't a private scholarship fund. She entered in a partnership with her husband where they agreed to work together towards a common goal. Why she should she forfeit the money she put in towards this venture when her husband breeches the contract?

And I disagree with you about posters just jumping in to protest against an errant male. We had a male poster post about his GF's infidelity and people reacted the same way against a female.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #78
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If you don't mind me saying, I don't agree with this attitude. Trying to make someone pay for an emotional hurt they have caused by hitting them in the pocketbook is, I think, one of the uglier sides of our litigious society.

I don't believe this is what Marathoner was thinking of; I imagine she just wants her 70K (or most of it) back, which is fair.
No. I don't mean she should make him pay for the emotional pain. I mean she made an investment in him by encouraging him, supporting him, and it seems paying for medical school. She should get a return on that investment.

In her emotional state right now she may not be thinking that way. A lawyer can do that kind of thinking for her.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:25 PM   #79
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Having just gone thru a divorce you should definately close any joint accounts, open your own accounts and change your deposit info. Don't mingle money any further. You need to protect your money and accounts. You may consider pulling a credit report so you can be sure to close all joint accounts too.

Discuss with a lawyer what a fair offer is and try to mediate an ending without litigation.

I guess I would say be careful about getting sucked into trying to punish him financially by the divorce process. You are in a position to really exert some serious financial pressure.

Good luck.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:28 PM   #80
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Am I the only one who thinks the scumbag is a psychopath?

On the face of it, he allowed you to support him in style, pay off his debts and make life easy for him. Then he has an affair but does not understand or even seem to care that this is wrong. He wants what he wants, when he wants it. And just to be on the safe side, he wants to be friends with you.

The bimbo may or may not fare well, depending on what you do. If you get 50% plus alimony, he will realize pretty fast that he can't afford to divorce her too when bimbo #2 comes along.... and she will. Once a cheater, always a cheater: especially when he doesn't think that cheating is wrong.

You don't owe him anything. He owes you. Make it painful.
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