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Old 12-21-2011, 02:59 PM   #141
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Finally, an easy question I did a 3:28 earlier this year.
Not bad!! I only did one...in Jiddah, after an R&R, age 41, before my knees gave out (osteoarthritis, no cartilage either knee).......I had two running buddies, (had beaten them both at every other distance), who had previously crossed the line together at 3:20 in another race, so I figured 3:15 would be a breeze.

It was an out-and-back, and at the turnaround I felt better than I had at the start.......then......3:46. (I blame it all on the R&R and associated beverage consumption.)

So.....if you can better a 3:28 you can do ANYTHING!

Good luck!
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:02 PM   #142
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I see a parallel between this and investment loss aversion, the reluctance to sell a declining stock because of the inability to get back what one paid for it and the reluctance to "cut the losses and run".

While you have a lot invested in the marriage, both financially and emotionally, ask yourself this:

Knowing what you know now, would you still marry him?

Either way you decide, where will you likely be five, ten, twenty years from now? More importantly, where do you want to be?
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #143
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Wow. What a great way to put it.

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Marathoner,

Best of luck. Remember this: you are the parent of your elder self: be sure to honor your 70 year-old within. .
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:42 PM   #144
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There are a lot of women who are physically abused by their partners and keep coming back in the hope they will change. They never do. Sometimes it ends fatally.

I'm not suggesting you are physically abused, but you are being mentally abused. Whatever you do, take charge. Don't be a victim.
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:41 PM   #145
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Marathoner, sorry you're going through this crazy time. Just wanted to add that even if you try counseling/reconciliation, it might help to keep living apart for a while. It can be hard to think objectively about a relationship when your daily lives are so entwined.

And I gotta say, were I in your shoes, I'd want some really good assurance why all this wouldn't happen again in the future! Especially the part about him not valuing your contributions to his degree/career!
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:34 PM   #146
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And I gotta say, were I in your shoes, I'd want some really good assurance why all this wouldn't happen again in the future! Especially the part about him not valuing your contributions to his degree/career!
And why your reading is such an annoyance to him......

I think we are holding more of a grudge against him than you are!
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #147
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...I think we are holding more of a grudge against him than you are!
That's because he has been a horses ass, and we're emotionally far enough removed to be able to see it clearly.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #148
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I would hate to comment on what I would do. Time changes lots of things. Give it some time and see what happens. I made it past 41 years with my best friend. I do wish you well. You seem like such a nice person. Take care. Oldtrig
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:56 PM   #149
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<snip> We talked yesterday so I could give him my attorney's information and I could get his (we are going to try collaborative divorce.) He got really sad, said he misses me and it was great to hear the sound of my voice. He thinks he made a huge mistake (after living with her for 3 days!) He has an appointment with the counselor tomorrow morning, so he wants to talk after that.

I don't even know what to think. I thought he would try to come back, but in no way did I think it would happen so soon. I guess I'll have to see what he says tomorrow. I had just about gotten my mind in a place where I was getting excited about what the future might bring and then this happens.
My alarm bells are going off big time. Some reconciliations happen because the guilty estranged partner wants time to financially position him/herself so they don't get taken to the cleaners when the divorce actually happens. This gives him/her a lot of leeway in liquidating and hiding assets and lots of time and opporunity to get dirt on or create a situation that would cause "dirt" on the spouse. Then there's leverage to argue fault (in case the state is not no-fault) or have alimony (if an alimony state) significantly reduced. He could come out of the marriage financially better by just waiting a few months.

On the other side of the coin, there's rarely a "honey I did this just one time" situation. If he comes back, it's just a matter of time before he leaves. I'd also be concerned about sexually transmitted diseases.

As you might be able to tell, I'm not a proponent of reconciliations. You're in a good situation right now. You're young. You don't have any children with him (custody fights are a terrible thing). Have a serious conversation with your attorney to find out what would be in your best financial interest.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:09 PM   #150
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Finally, at the very least I'd suggest a lengthy separation... just to let the dust/emotions to settle.
This...

I'm not qualified to give marriage advice, but I'm pretty good at divorces...
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:31 PM   #151
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Are you in a fault or no-fault state? Divorce laws vary by state. Since he moved out, some states regard that as abandonment and in most states you are in a strong position for divorce negotiations. Most states will regard you are reconciled if you allow him to move back in, which will negate any negotiating position you currently have and allow him time to move assets and position his next set of actions much more favorably. It is very common for runaway spouses to show true colors and intentions until their first discussion with a divorce attorney who explains the legal implications of their rash actions. As soon as they understand the consequences to themselves of what they've done, they start looking for ways to change the story to make it less financially painful, often with no regard at all for consequences to their partner(s).

In some cases couples do reconcile, but it takes great dedication and work by both people. In many cases, runaway spouse gets cold feet, tries to reposition themselves to avoid consequences of their actions and has no sincere interest in reconciliation. It can be just another manifestation of the selfish mindset that lead to cheating in the first place. Beware sudden change of spots. If you can get good info on your state laws, you really want to understand what you may be losing in terms of expected outcome if you are taken in by a sob story (whether he really believes it or not) only to be manipulated again once his legal position is more favorable to him.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:03 AM   #152
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I would not allow him to move back in before having completed lengthy and very detailed counseling with joint sessions as well as separate sessions.

Allow yourself enough time to explore what his actions disclose about his personality and future behavior.

I just love antmary's

"Best of luck. Remember this: you are the parent of your elder self: be sure to honor your 70 year-old within."

It is so true!

All the best!
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:16 AM   #153
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Question: let's say they were both legal owners who's names are on the deed and the husband put down payment on the property. Once divorced does the wife have any rights even though she didn't contribute to the down payment as the husband did.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:07 AM   #154
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IMO. Cut the relationship and finances asap. Do not take him back at this time. Continue with YOUR plan based on what you know now. I think your judgement is clouded similar to the battered wife syndrome. If getting back together is in the cards then let it happen later on YOUR terms. There are too many unknowns here.

Is this because his attorney suggested this? Have an insider in the house to gather details.

Is this the path of least resistance because he will have no where to live once the other husband comes home?

He will still work with this women and probably see her each day more than he sees you.

The other unknown is the out of town husband. What new events will spawn once he gets cranked up about this soap opera.

Bottom line. If you like the drama, all of the unknowns, NOT being in control of your life, finances, and relationship then carry on with HIS plan.

Good luck.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:37 AM   #155
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+1 antmary said it well. I also was divorced from a serial cheater while in my late twenties. I married young and I couldn't see myself as "divorced" so I put up with way to much abuse both emotional and physical until I grew a backbone. Life is too short to settle for something or someone that has already shown you what kind of person they really are. Your husband let you finance his schooling, had an affair with another woman, and announces he wants out. The handwriting is on the wall and it is all his.

I urge you to protect yourself at all costs. Get the best counselor, the best lawyer.

I have been with my current husband for 25 years. He is everything I could have ever wanted in a partner. I now look at my ex and know that he did me a large favor when he left on New Years Eve to be with his girlfriend of the moment in 1979. Our divorce was very painful but I did manage to grow that backbone that I really needed.

Hang in there. You are on a crossroads of life. Make the best choices for your future happiness. Good luck!
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:56 AM   #156
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Thanks again for the well wishes and advice on my continuing saga. Thought I should update. He had his first individual counseling session this morning. He called me after and asked if we could get together for coffee, so we did.

He said that he was more screwed up than even he realized. He now has a weekly standing appointment with his counselor and she told him it will take months, possibly years, for him to get better. He told me he thinks he may be a sociopath (Nords hit the nail on the head!) He said that he needs to work things out alone and that I (unintentionally) enabled him during our marriage by protecting him from the real world and making it so he never had to address his past. He wanted me not to blame myself for that. He said maybe that's what he needed during the chaos of med school/residency, but now he needs to address his demons and he doesn't think he can do that with me around.

He took full responsibility for the demise of our marriage since he was so screwed up. He apologized for hurting me and for having an affair as I deserve better. He wishes he would have gotten help before things got too far. He said he can't ever see us getting back together because he is so damaged and I deserve better. And he's right.

I wanted so badly to make this work. We were college sweethearts and he was my first love. I will spend some time alone working through this and hopefully someday I will meet a man who will be a better match. I'm kind of excited to be able to reinvent parts of my life.

I am now working on detaching from him and continuing to make progress in separating from him. He meets with his lawyer on December 30 so I guess we're basically in a holding pattern until then. He said he's not in a hurry to divorce. He claims to still care about me and he wants to keep me on his health insurance until I get a job where it's offered. Of course his attitude might change after he meets with his lawyer, so I'm trying to not get my heart/mind set on anything.

Anyway, I know I've been all over the place in this thread. I think that's because I was on this roller coaster and my whole world got turned upside down less than a month ago. Ultimately, I know I'll be OK. My counselor said she'd rather be in my shoes right now than his, and I know she's right.

I will be spending the weekend with my family, and it will be great to be around people who really love me. This isn't the way I envisioned 2011 to end, but, as many of you have inferred, perhaps I'll look back on this as one of the best things that happened to me.

Thanks again! I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your stories, give me advice, and provide hope that a better life is waiting for me just around the corner. I'm sure I'll have ups and downs throughout this process, but right now I'm feeling pretty good. What a caring group of people are here and I'm happy to be a part of this.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:14 AM   #157
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He said he can't ever see us getting back together because he is so damaged and I deserve better.
Call me cynical, is this another revamped version of "It's not you, it's me" routine by George?
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:21 AM   #158
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Call me cynical, is this another revamped version of "It's not you, it's me" routine by George?
Dude is a self-identified sociopath. That means that anything out of his mouth must be regarded as a cynical manipulation for his own ends with absolutely no regard for other people.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:12 PM   #159
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Question: let's say they were both legal owners who's names are on the deed and the husband put down payment on the property. Once divorced does the wife have any rights even though she didn't contribute to the down payment as the husband did.
I would think in any state the wife would have some kind of right if her name is on the deed no matter who contributed the down payment or even the monthly payments...

In Texas, even if you own a property before you get married (which makes it separate), once the wife moves into the property she has rights to live there. If the husband dies, the wife can live in the house as long as she wants even if she does not own it. And she does not have to pay to fix it up if she does not want to....
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:16 PM   #160
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So he got all that from a single counselling session? Must be some kind of counsellor!

This guy has been writing the script for a long time.
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