Getting my daughter off the RayinPenn Dole...

[athena53]

My parents managed expectations. We knew they were saving to put us through college but after undergrad they were done. Since Mom and Dad were so mean they wouldn't allow sleepovers with my boyfriends I was more than happy to get out ASAP. I also decided that I wouldn't think of myself as a woman until I was self-supporting. I started my first real job the day after my college graduation and haven't looked back.

My brother lived with my parents after graduation even though he had a 1.5-hour one-way commute (in Ohio that's crazy). When my parents moved to Buffalo and he HAD to get out he took half their food, toilet paper, etc. with him to his new place. They did continue to pay college costs for my brother and sister who married before graduation and they chipped in when my BIL was working 3 jobs to get my sister through med school, which she started at age 30.

All of us have been out of college for 35+ years now and haven't had to come back to the nest. Same for my DS, who stayed in the city where he attended college after graduation in 2007 and found a job there.

[2soon2tell]

Jeffman,

Just a thought that the NSA or CIA might be interested in your son based on his foreign language skills.

[38Chevy454]

Good for you Ray, stay hard as nails in your commitment to force self-sufficiency on your kids. Except for rare cases, kids need that push out of the nest. MamaRay-bird needs to toughen up and work on that.

There's a difference between a safety net and a hammock.

[45th Birthday]

Some of these stories make me feel lucky to have our two kids mostly off the payroll. I thought I was moving slowly. Both graduated from college with no debt. We paid for everything and gave them a bit of spending money, but they worked small jobs during school, and had nicely paying jobs during the summer. They actually saved money while in college. Upon graduation they were gifted enough money to buy a fairly nice vehicle. Both have relatively expensive "hobbies" that they have managed to pursue while managing the costs.

We still have them on our phone plan, which isn't very costly. We pay for all travel for them to visit us (neither lives nearby), which amounts to a bit but also means they visit often. Also have started gifting them what amounts to 5-10% of their pay, and we have made it clear we expect them to save, but don't put explicit rules in place.

Son is entering third year out of school. He is a teacher, and loves it, but he will never earn big bucks. He is saving diligently, though. In a relationship with another teacher, and their combined salaries easily support a nice lifestyle. Son and girlfriend lived with us this summer while working well-paying jobs consistent with their avocations. We live in a resort area in the summer, and they lived with us rent-free and other than helping with chores were not expected to contribute to household expenses. We will never expect anything else, and they will probably continue to do this in the future at least for a time.

Daughter is a consultant, entering the second year out of college. Ironically, though she is better educated in financial aspects of life, she has a harder time controlling her spending urges. Got a bit of an awakening this year when she realized how much she had been spending.

[MichaelB]

The only reason people have these problems is because of those pesky child labor laws back in '38. Before then children earned their keep and there was no freeloading.

[RobbieB]

Yeah!

Get those needy kids back in the mills where they belong and work 'em 12 hours a day -

[walkinwood]

Ray, you should put all your post (of this kind) in a book.. a title suggestion .. "Chicken soup for the ER Soul".

[MuirWannabe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB Yeah! Get those needy kids back in the mills where they belong and work 'em 12 hours a day -

Now that I’m grown up (supposedly), I couldn’t agree more.

[Bamaman]

Our daughter is bipolar with a very disagreeable personality. We are working hard not to be enablers--going to therapy, etc.
Last year, she didn't protect her car keys and someone ran my car off in a ditch 20 miles away. When we returned from April in Europe, we found our car in police lockup where some felon attempted to allude police--$550 to get the car back. I kept the car and our daughter is on Ankle Express.
Our daughter tested positive a year ago for drugs, and Family Court ordered no contact with her two kids. She failed to do what was required to have parential rights and we have permanent custody of a 6 year old. DHR is running is crazy while we are great grandparents.
Our daughter was living in a nice home I provided--bought at a great price. She never got a job to provide insurance or property taxes. My house was turned into a hangout for drug dealers, ex-convicts and undesirable people whom had no cars or places to be. I had to evict her to avoid the state from taking the property as a drug nuisance house.
Our daughter is sleeping on park benches and her old "friends" have turned their backs on her. She refuses to accept that her recreational drugs are toxic and fry users'minds. And she thinks we are going to eventually provide transportation.
It breaks our hearts to see a 29 year old going downhill, but her life is to this point a product of her bad life decisions. Our consciences are clear, and we are sticking to our guns.
Last Saturday, a real estate agent and her plumber brothers offered to buy our extra house for what we paid for it. We considered their offer a God thing--after some hard negotiations. Hopefully it is a start of better days.
Now we spend half our nights praying some good person will come into our daughter's path and lead her in a different direction in life.

[gayl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar This is a relevant current topic to me. Every family is different and I don’t need anyone telling me “I’m doing it all wrong”. Suffice to say we have been extremely generous to my 33 year old DD. You name it, and we have done it. Result has been wonderful. She is a hard working, intelligent, street smart young woman. Biggest issue remaining is her need to buy a house in Toronto’s very expensive market. But the “Bank of Dad” will be there. She never asks for anything(doesnt have to) and never acts “entitled”. I am very happy that we are in a position to help. Couldn’t have worked out any better.

pd the downpayments of both kids homes. SF Bay Area is expensive and I like having them both within 2 miles of me. Son is doing awesome, daughter is struggling. But at least they're both on their own now. Her eldest son will graduate college owing approximately 15,000. Her next kid hasn't a clue. He's a little upset that he can't apply to a regular school because his GPA is barely 2.0. Guess it's community college or work for him

[Moemg]

Bamaman , You are doing a great job dealing with a terrible situation .

[pb4uski]

+1 Awful what you are going through.

DW frequently laments that DS is not living up to his potential... while I agree I try to tell her to look at the good things... he is living on his own, working regularly (albeit in a low wage job) and providing for himself, he is not into alcohol or drugs, he is paying his own expenses and saving money. True, he lives in a dump, but that is his choice (and it is really cheap). A friend buried his son earlier this summer from a drug overdose so while I had higher hopes for DS, I count my blessings too.

[Katsmeow]

We are working with this on 2 of our kids now. We have 3.

The oldest is off our payroll entirely. This is not going well for the oldest because of poor choices on the part of the oldest. But, we did help to the point we could but the last couple of years no more.

The two right now are very different situations. DS recently graduated college and decided to go to grad school. That is fine, actually great. But, we had always made it clear that grad school was on him financially. We are giving him some money to help him move out and get establishes (we planned this years ago and would have done at when he graduated college even if he had gotten a job instead of grad school). But, he has gotten himself a student loan (this is a state school so not a crushing expense and his field is a high income field so not worried about it) and found a part-time job that doesn't conflict with school to cover ancillary expenses.

We are currently getting us unentangled with him financially. He is staying on our phone plan but will be paying us for his part.

The most difficult part to decide is health insurance. DH's retiree insurance provides an HRA for me and the kids. It is helpful but doesn't cover all of the premiums. I am on a great plan, but it is super expensive. And, if I cover my 2 younger kids on the plan it costs us a lot out of pocket for the extra premium. On the other hand, if I dropped them from my plan they could use the HRA to buy an ACA policy at far less cost. It would be an HMO but the network looks OK. I am inclined to tell our son that he can stay on the plan I'm on but he has to pay for the share of the extra cost that it costs us to have him on the plan. Or he can take the HRA money and get a much cheaper ACA plan. I'll decide once I see the ACA offerings.

My daughter is a different situation. Actually, somewhat similar to Bamaman but younger and no kids and not at the stage of his daughter. She is bipolar also. We've done a lot to try to help her. Currently we've been helping her with living expenses while she is trying to be stable in employment and get work experience. This is very much a 2 steps forward, 1.5 steps back sort of thing. That is, she does make progress then something happens. But, the bottom line is that we can't afford to continue to support her. We've basically supported her for the last 2 years and we really just can't keep doing it and I don't really think at this point it is in her interest for us to do it. Early on, we did it because she was getting help and the idea was for us to help her while she was getting help and becoming more functional. She did eventually get a job but she has had a lot of spotty work history (not all of that was her fault. For example, she lost one job because of missing work due to a physical illness. The good news is that after having surgery she went back to them and they have re-hired her.)

But when we agreed to help her with expenses this year we told her very clearly that we would not be able to continue it for more than a year. It is difficult in that she really does have an illness. But, she often doesn't do the things that would help her. And, she doesn't seem to really seriously accept that she has to support herself. So she has spent money frivolously when she didn't have money for expenses. Of course, I recognize that is partly the bipolar. At the same time she has decided not to take her medication.

Regardless, she is an adult and we have made clear that we have spent as much on her as we can afford to spend without jeopardizing our own financial well being. I'm hoping she will learn and will use the help she has available.

[GoBears]

DD fled the family home and an abusive boyfriend at age 19. Wasn’t ready for college and had been unemployed. Lived for 10 months with a relative in a very LCOL area and found but couldn’t hold jobs. Ultimately moved to her own apartment, which we loaned her $to get. Quitting with no notice and not having a job lined up wasn’t smart. Bailed her out for a few more months until she ultimately decided to move home at age 20 to get a job with a friend and pay off her debts. But was wooed by a new boyfriend and moved out after staying 3 days. We said that’s fine, you are making an adult decision but don’t expect any more money. She is now off the dole. If she was making progress toward life goals we would probably feel differently. But she’s not, so we’re not. And I am not working one more year because she can’t hold a job.

DS is in his fourth out of five years of college. Changed his major to computer science so he will take an extra year, which is fine. He stayed at home for two years going to the local community college. So, we are paying for in state public school out of a 529 account. No car yet. We will help him with one over winter break, but he will pay his insurance out of a fair amount of $ he has saved up. He’s making progress.

[Katsmeow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBears DS is in his fourth out of five years of college. Changed his major to computer science so he will take an extra year, which is fine. He stayed at home for two years going to the local community college.

Wow! This sounds like DS. He switched his major to CS and ending up taking extra time for that. He lived at home also while going to CC. And, then after he graduated he looked for a job for a little while and then realized that everything he really wanted to do he needed to know more so he went back to grad school (where he is now paying for that himself).

[rayinpenn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman Our daughter is bipolar with a very disagreeable personality... It breaks our hearts to see a 29 year old going downhill.

Bamaman

Although I tell my tales often with 'tongue in cheek' your daughters story is a hard reality check. I don't forget for a moment that I am blessed with two well adapted kids...

I too hope the magic gong sounds and your daughter changes direction. It happens all the time ...

Oh it sounds like you've done all you can do; None of us are perfect parents...

[HadEnuff]

My step-son, who I love, made a lot of bad decisions growing up, including moving out of our house, at age 13, so he could live with his "real" dad who was an alcoholic, living off a "disability" (which didn't preclude him from deer hunting, or doing carpentry "on the side"), and had no rules. Fast Forward 10 years and guess who wants to move back in. Mom just assumed he would because seemingly he had no where else to go.
I said, OK, but we are going to have a conversation and an exit strategy, and the conversation is going to go something like this:
"well you are here because you recognize you've mismanaged the last 10 years and you need us to help you get back on your feet. So, throw away the skateboard, you won't have time to use it. Unless you are at work, you will be home by 10PM. You will take on two jobs, and turn over every cent to your mom. When you have accumulated enough to get an apartment, you will do so".....Guess what? He found another place to live. FF another ten years and he's still out there on his own, making it work, not living under my roof.

[target2019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayinpenn A few weeks ago I told my gainfully employed Daughter (after she received her second paycheck) that I expected her to get her own Credit Card and pay for her own gas. She applied online and was immediately approved by Citibank - card to follow in a week or so. About 3 weeks later I am sitting having breakfast and see a credit card and some paperwork on the table. I ask the wife what is this credit card doing here? "It's your daughters". I am on to them- The Mrs is a softie and will allow the daughter to bleed me as long as possible. When I finally catch up with my daughter I make it clear no more gas on my card. She's got no student debt (Thanks mom and Dad), no rent, a 2 year old car that we bought for her and a nice salary. She is getting off the RayiPenn Dole! And when I tell her she says "you are mean". Yep thats me, Mean. I think she just doesn't like hearing it. Your off "the gravy train". Yesterday I walked Dusty early and noticed the windows on my daughter car were frosted. I thought I hope she warms that car up and defrost those windows before she leaves at 6:45AM. I heard the Mrs talking to her about her Car's state inspection which was due. Well to make a long story short -she doesn't know it but a remote starter is getting installed as we speak. Yeah, like I said the wife is a softie- Me I am hard as nails... hard as nails i tell you! Care to share your "off the dole' experience -id love to hear it.

When both kids were old enough (think 16), they received debit cards that had limits. Not sure if that is still possible. These were tied into one of our accounts. I did not manage that.

Cell phones were just becoming a necessity, in the 00's, and I do recall that being a problem with both kids in middle and high school. We were not in the best position financially, so I had to be really cheap about things. I recall giving my HS son a quarter so he could call me if he needed a ride home after school. I'm sure he thought I was the cheapest SOB ever.

Daughter had it better, but always thought brother got more. Funny, we are still on the same phone plan. Now, she pays the bill each month with my CC. In her first job she nailed down a 20% discount on the plan, and became the primary account holder. Each month she sends $$$ to my checking acct, to pay her share. Actually, she is paying more than her share. LOL.

College for both cost about the same. There were loans of course, but each knew the true cost of education. He paid off college loans with his own earnings. She had some college savings to use for that, and also worked full time during the last couple of years of college.

Daughter is more susceptible to "the sell" and it has cost her a few dollars. Now that she is on her own, the full cost of life's learning is upon her.

Son is a few years ahead of her, and knows more about the world. He has paid us back for the tuition and other things.

Some parents have it much worse, others have it much better. Most of us are stuck in the middle, which is not so bad after all.

[street]

Interesting thread and every child is different even if raised the same way by their parents.

I had only one son and he was easy to raise and was independent at the age of 17. He went to collage and pretty much paid his way. We helped with gas Ins. while in school but he did really did the rest on his own. Started working at age 15 and at 18 had a full time job and has worked his way up in 5 years to a 100K plus year job.

We were lucky to have a child that was so easy. I also will say he never NOT ONCE asked for money or anything. I'm very proud of him.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by street Interesting thread and every child is different even if raised the same way by their parents. I had only one son and he was easy to raise and was independent at the age of 17. He went to collage and pretty much paid his way. We helped with gas Ins. while in school but he did really did the rest on his own. Started working at age 15 and at 18 had a full time job and has worked his way up in 5 years to a 100K plus year job. We were lucky to have a child that was so easy. I also will say he never NOT ONCE asked for money or anything. I'm very proud of him.

Impressive kid. Points out the wide variation in young people’s behaviour. We have friends that have had terrible experiences and we have read about some of those here. Every kid is different and how and the extent you help them (or not) will depend on how they react.