Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-13-2008, 09:24 PM   #121
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
thefed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppaJoe View Post
Run, "Judy," run! Don't join the ranks of women who didn't find time to get their own lawyer's review of the prenup and years later must listen to an opposition attorney say, "she signed it!"

IMO a prenup is there only to circumvent the meaning of "the piece of paper." I look at a prenup paper and I say, "that is not a marriage." Also, FYI (in Cal, for one) you cannot sign away your rights to spousal and child support.

It strikes me as patently unfair for Fed to hold this over her head. He says the (marriage) paper doesn't matter, b.s.! B.S, b.s., especially since he's insisting on a prenup. I don't know if their state is a community property state but if it is, this lack of paper would have already cut her out of eight years of the acquisition of property they both contributed to. Getting the cow's milk for free is one thing but to take all the slaughterhouse profit is.... (fill in the blank).

Although I ALMOST dont want to even respond to this post, I did say ALMOST so i'm gonna respond. FIRST OFF,when we've discussed a prenup in the past, as long as 6years ago,she's been fine with it. she's still fine with it and realizes that infact she had very little to do with me acquiring what little wealth I have. IN ADDITION, I have advised her (and she listened) to find her own atty,and discuss prenups with them. wewould then sit down together to makeitup,andhave our respective atty's review it. Its the one thing I WONT pay for (for her)as I dont want aj udge,in the unfortunate event of a divorce, to have any reason to suspect that iinfluenced her decisions....


Her free ride right now is just that...a FREE ride. Financially,she must contribute NOTHING to our situation. She works for play money. So how does that entitle her to the things *I* have earned?

FWIW my spacebar sticks so Im not going to keep fixing these errors!
__________________

__________________
thefed is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-13-2008, 09:36 PM   #122
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefed View Post

Her free ride right now is just that...a FREE ride. Financially,she must contribute NOTHING to our situation. She works for play money. So how does that entitle her to the things *I* have earned?
Show her that comment thefed, I think that will solve any 'issues' you have over her wanting to marry you.

What a jerk.

I don't watch Montel, so I don't know what the hell I'm doing reading this thread. I'm out'a here.

Gonna go hug my wife and count my blessings.

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 09:44 PM   #123
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
thefed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppaJoe View Post
No, I'm not giving Fed any advice. (That was venting!). Where is the advice to Fed, in "run, 'Judy,' run"?

I'm saying that anyone who signs a prenup drawn up by the other party's attorney should at minimum have it reviewed by their own attorney, that is an atty. who represents only him or herself, not the potential spouse's atty who drew up the prenup, or worse, not an atty who is passed off as representing both of them; at mid level postpone the wedding; at max call it off.

My real problem with prenups is the coercive last minute nature of them and the implicit distrust. The best prenups merely restate state law, e.g. they may spell out what separate property exists. Do you think that a prenup starts the marriage off on a better footing? Obviously, I don't.

I don't get your comment that the property is owned by Fed when he has lived with her for 8 years--should she morally have no share in the benefits of the property acquired during those 8 years?
I did explain in the above post that there is NO last minute, coercive nature in this instance whatsoever,thus you can mark that off of your list.

Why WOULDN'T a prenup start the marriage off on a better footing? Sure, it might indicate distrust at first glimpse. But if properly executed, it surely indicates two adults who have discussed, analyzed, compromised on some of the most important aspects of their future. Sounds like a good start to me....

Lastly, what does having a moral share of the benefits mean? You lost me.... MORALLY, she should own my things I earned....thats what you mean....isnt it? How so? We're talking black white and grey here....not magenta.
__________________
thefed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 09:57 PM   #124
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefed View Post

Her free ride right now is just that...a FREE ride. Financially,she must contribute NOTHING to our situation. She works for play money. So how does that entitle her to the things *I* have earned?
WOW>>>> As ERD50 said.... plus more....

SOOO, a woman you say you LOVE and are COMMITTED.... you feel is only with you for the FREE ride I think you should kick her to the curb and go find someone who will pay their way... get rid of that old bag who wants to steal all of your hard earned money.... it would be easier to get a job and pay her own way than to stay with you....


And this answers all my questions of your will and your plan to help support her and your kids in case you died for whatever reason... of course you have nothing in place... why give her a free ride when you are dead...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 10:14 PM   #125
Moderator Emeritus
CuppaJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefed View Post
I did explain in the above post that there is NO last minute, coercive nature in this instance whatsoever,thus you can mark that off of your list.

Why WOULDN'T a prenup start the marriage off on a better footing? Sure, it might indicate distrust at first glimpse. But if properly executed, it surely indicates two adults who have discussed, analyzed, compromised on some of the most important aspects of their future. Sounds like a good start to me....

Lastly, what does having a moral share of the benefits mean? You lost me.... MORALLY, she should own my things I earned....thats what you mean....isnt it? How so? We're talking black white and grey here....not magenta.
That was a side conversation with Abreutime, don't expect you to understand.
__________________
CuppaJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 10:18 PM   #126
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
thefed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
WOW>>>> As ERD50 said.... plus more....

SOOO, a woman you say you LOVE and are COMMITTED.... you feel is only with you for the FREE ride I think you should kick her to the curb and go find someone who will pay their way... get rid of that old bag who wants to steal all of your hard earned money.... it would be easier to get a job and pay her own way than to stay with you....


And this answers all my questions of your will and your plan to help support her and your kids in case you died for whatever reason... of course you have nothing in place... why give her a free ride when you are dead...

Did i ever say shes only along for the the free ride? no. I said she's got one...there's no questions about it...SHE'D tell you that....its obvious.

re-read the post, youre taking this out of context. i have a will,in which she and my sons are the only ones who get anything. i have a life insurance policy as well, on which she is listed as the primary,and my sons secondary. not that its any of your business, but i dont want you getting your panties in a bunch for nothing...
__________________
thefed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 10:20 PM   #127
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
thefed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Show her that comment thefed, I think that will solve any 'issues' you have over her wanting to marry you.

What a jerk.

I don't watch Montel, so I don't know what the hell I'm doing reading this thread. I'm out'a here.

Gonna go hug my wife and count my blessings.

-ERD50
funny thing is, i dont need to show her that comment...she AGREES with me. have i not made that clear?

to clarify my original mention of the prenup,she is taking it 'halfheartedly' because she's said, and I QUOTE "Why WOULD i get any of your stuff you've accumulated up to this point? It's yours." In saying that, she thinks a prenup is redundant. Tha law doesnt think that way though. i just want to be sure we have a clear understanding in case potentially ill feelings sway her in the future.
__________________
thefed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 10:49 PM   #128
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 62
..Her free ride right now is just that...a FREE ride. Financially,she must contribute NOTHING to our situation. She works for play money. So how does that entitle her to the things *I* have earned?...

You grossly underestimate what it means to be a stay at home mom to 2 kids under 3. She works much harder than you ever have, regardless of your F!!!!ing paycheck. What makes you think you are entitled to what she does for you and your children everyday? It's not your money just because you work for it. If you want her to be a SAHM then you have to respect it, otherwise you are a controlling, insensitive man. If she agrees with you, then stop beating her down.
__________________
enfp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 11:12 PM   #129
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Fascinating, you really can't see what's wrong with this picture.

Don't marry her, you are in the running for worst husband in the world if you do. You'll be doing her a favor.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 12:20 AM   #130
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefed View Post
Did i ever say shes only along for the the free ride? no. I said she's got one...there's no questions about it...SHE'D tell you that....its obvious.

re-read the post, youre taking this out of context. i have a will,in which she and my sons are the only ones who get anything. i have a life insurance policy as well, on which she is listed as the primary,and my sons secondary. not that its any of your business, but i dont want you getting your panties in a bunch for nothing...
NOO... there is a question about it.... it is not FREE... she has to put up with you...

Re-read your posts.... you keep saying how much you love her and your kids and are committed to them.... but then throw out these lines of 'free ride' and 'my stuff' and all.... tells me a lot about you... you don't want a partner... it is very clear... you want someone you can control... and you want to control her with your money... because if it was a partnership it is both of your money... because you both made a decision that she is a SAHM.... and she is upholding HER end of the bargain... seems you are not...

You can say all you want how you are this and how you are that and how we don't know you etc etc..... but your words paint a different picture than what you think... and many people here are seeing that picture... I am not the only one... and I have seen it before... so do some looking in the mirror and see what you are bringing to this relationship besides your money...

BTW, if you are willing to leave her everything if you die.... then what is the problem with her having some of it when you are alive?
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 01:00 AM   #131
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,424
I understand that this is just a way to vent your feelings about your situation and you aren't looking for advice. It sounds like you're not looking to make a change (marry or break-up), you're hoping you can just keep doing it the way you've been doing it, living together, raising a family but not being married.

In all fairness to your GF, she would benefit greatly by taking a few minutes to sit down and read through this entire thread.
__________________
Sue J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 03:20 AM   #132
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Largo
Posts: 1,945
How can you call your desire for a pre-nup and her concurrence as non-coercive when you are negotiating from a position of overwhelming power? You hold the keys to the kingdom both financially and with respect to getting married. You think she's not going to agree to your terms under those conditions?

I hope she has the good sense to stand up to you but she is in a very vulnerable position. When I was younger, I was all for living together. The older I got, the more I realized it was typically a very poor choice for a woman all the way around. She made a huge mistake starting a family with you without being married but that's water under the bridge. Her options now become much more painful and difficult when there are children involved.

She has got to start working in a "real" job and earning "real" money. Without earning power, her options and power are extremely limited. Earning power is relationship power which you have clearly demonstrated.
__________________
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 06:24 AM   #133
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Texarkandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,281
Though I've never had to sit down & seriously consider it from a personal standpoint, I've always had the sense there's just something wrong about a pre-nup.

Although neither of us came into the marriage with very much, it was my salary put DW through college to her Bachelor's degree - DW stayed home for over 10 yrs and worked very hard raising DD from an infant to a smart healthy well-adjusted teen, keeping a very nice home for us, making life easier for us so I could work a sometimes stressful job & we could enjoy family outings on the weekend without having to worry about housework/yard/etc. Meanwhile, she's missed out on on SS credits, pension plan, 401K opportunity, etc - as well as the social contact & other psychological benefits of having a career.

Now that DD is older, DW went & got her teaching cert (again with $ from my job) & is now teaching helping us get to that semi-ER state. She'll probably work for a few years after I reach semi-ER next year.

I don't feel like she's had a free-ride at all. Sure, maybe my job's been buying the gas, but we've shared the driving, maintenance, repairs, etc - as well as the navigation.

Despite some of my earlier comments, as long as you are still thinking of "hers" & "mine" (after 8 years) instead of "our" then perhaps marriage is not in order for you.

Marriage is a full and equal partnership. Ya gotta jump in with both feet with all you've got (including your $) with full faith IMHO, regardless of who brought what to the table. If you can't do that, then ...... ?
__________________
Retired 2009!
Texarkandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 07:23 AM   #134
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
thefed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,203
This will be my last post on this topic as it had strayed very far off course.

I'm not going to address any more posts directly because again, they are very far off base.

Sometimes things sound/seem differently when you dont know the whole picture. There is a lot more i can not nearly explain on a forum - nor do I want to. Once closeminded people see the word 'felon', 'divorceee', 'illegal activities' etc, their minds are already swayed...that predisposition will filter through all of their interactions with me....until they KNOW me. Thats understandable...I used to be that way too. Unfortunately (FORTUNATELY?) I did not lead a sheltered, privileged life as I grew up. I faced adversity every step of the way and have risen above the mess. Still though, as life goes on, my past experiences and relationships affect my life. Such is life. I can not avoid it,so i work through it. I'm 25 years old, still unsure of my true purpose here...as many are. I work 60 hrs/week to provide for my family. I am saving for a retirement. I am raising my children in an environment 10x better than my fiance (ooohhh.he said fiance!!) or myself ever had. I am fostering relationships with new people in positions I WANT to be in one day. I volunteer 4hrs month at a local outreach center. I volunteer 10+ hrs/month as a course planner/teacher with Junior Achievement, a program dedicated to teaching high school youth about entrepreneurship. I'm not some scumbag drug dealing wife beating control freak who neglects his family. Instead I'm a normal person who's taken a slightly different path in life. I'm trying to change the faults that make me an imperfect person. I will never be perfect, but will never stop trying.

Several people have contacted me outside the public forum with their sincere input to avoid the ridicule of those who have taken an obviously negative, aggressive stance towards my situation....and I thank them for that.

To those who have taken the other road, i thank you too. It is people like yourself that keep me going strong...I strive in the face of adversity. I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from, I really do. My ex teachers, co-workers, even family have treated me that way at times. Sometimes I have seen that there are underlying reasons to their approach. Sometimes not. But all in all, most have come around once they get to know me a little better. although that is unlikely in this social setting, I hope you can keep an open mind. i dont feel negatively toward any of you.


thanks

jason
__________________
thefed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 08:18 AM   #135
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefed View Post
This will be my last post on this topic as it had strayed very far off course.

I'm not going to address any more posts directly because again, they are very far off base.

Sometimes things sound/seem differently when you dont know the whole picture. There is a lot more i can not nearly explain on a forum - nor do I want to. Once closeminded people see the word 'felon', 'divorceee', 'illegal activities' etc, their minds are already swayed...that predisposition will filter through all of their interactions with me....until they KNOW me. Thats understandable...I used to be that way too. Unfortunately (FORTUNATELY?) I did not lead a sheltered, privileged life as I grew up. I faced adversity every step of the way and have risen above the mess. Still though, as life goes on, my past experiences and relationships affect my life. Such is life. I can not avoid it,so i work through it. I'm 25 years old, still unsure of my true purpose here...as many are. I work 60 hrs/week to provide for my family. I am saving for a retirement. I am raising my children in an environment 10x better than my fiance (ooohhh.he said fiance!!) or myself ever had. I am fostering relationships with new people in positions I WANT to be in one day. I volunteer 4hrs month at a local outreach center. I volunteer 10+ hrs/month as a course planner/teacher with Junior Achievement, a program dedicated to teaching high school youth about entrepreneurship. I'm not some scumbag drug dealing wife beating control freak who neglects his family. Instead I'm a normal person who's taken a slightly different path in life. I'm trying to change the faults that make me an imperfect person. I will never be perfect, but will never stop trying.

Several people have contacted me outside the public forum with their sincere input to avoid the ridicule of those who have taken an obviously negative, aggressive stance towards my situation....and I thank them for that.

To those who have taken the other road, i thank you too. It is people like yourself that keep me going strong...I strive in the face of adversity. I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from, I really do. My ex teachers, co-workers, even family have treated me that way at times. Sometimes I have seen that there are underlying reasons to their approach. Sometimes not. But all in all, most have come around once they get to know me a little better. although that is unlikely in this social setting, I hope you can keep an open mind. i dont feel negatively toward any of you.


thanks

jason
I hope that posting your thoughts in the thread has helped you in your decision.

I still think that marriage is too big of a step to take with such reservations as you have expressed. But ultimately, it is your decision and you know the situation better than any of us, naturally, and are in a better position to assess the pros and cons. I wish you the very, very best no matter what path you choose.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 08:19 AM   #136
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Somehow, I knew this would turn out to be a dogpile.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 08:44 AM   #137
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
Never mind everything else, Fed, but I'm thinking of the book that's out there, "He's Just Not That Into You." From the outside it seems that if you were really into her,
you would have already happily met her at the altar and wouldn't be finding all these reasons not to. It's okay if you're not that into her, for whatever reason. She's a big girl, she'll do what she needs to do. Bless you both.
__________________
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 09:00 AM   #138
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,424
Fed, I knew that you were younger than most here, but I had no idea that you were 25!

You've accomplished a lot, and had some rough spots. You have a lot going for you. Good luck to you and the family.
__________________
Sue J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 09:51 AM   #139
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 310
Hey fed, you should have said you were only 25!!! Hell I thought you were 40 and a foot dragger!
__________________
shoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 10:18 AM   #140
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,015
Fed, having two kids and a personal relationship of 8 years in length when you yourself are only 25 is stunning to me.

I'm still pulling for you -- take one day at a time and you'll figure it out.

Geez, people, he's still a youngun!
__________________

__________________
Achiever51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forever Stocks - or at least 20 yrs? unclemick Stock Picking and Market Strategy 32 11-07-2007 02:59 PM
For currently married MEN only. MUST be married for at least 10 years. Sam Other topics 33 01-08-2007 02:24 PM
My Retirement Situation (38 yrs old) Shabber FIRE and Money 23 09-03-2006 03:17 AM
OJ beat up by ex girlfriend cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 2 07-07-2005 12:34 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:41 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.