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Old 02-15-2015, 11:45 AM   #41
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ERD50, because a cooktop is glass does not mean it is an induction cooktop. Read here: Buying Guide: Induction vs Ceramic Cooktops | Harvey Norman Australia
Imoldernu has an electric coil range, not an induction range.

Re knobs at back safer for kids, that old argument is also 55 years old. Does your range not have a 'lock out' feature? That feature has been around for many years. Also re kids safety, how do you keep them from putting their hand on a hot burner? If they could reach a front knob they could reach a front burner. On the other hand, an induction cooktop has NO hot burners. Which is safer for kids?

I agree bad design occurs regardless of age but you might agree that better design tends to happen over time. They take an old design and make the next generation a bit better in some way. They have done that in this case but people keep on buying the same old design. Whose fault is that? If the consumer doesn't bother to take the time to educate themselves as to what is available and thinks for example that if it is a glass top it is induction, then the consumer has only him/herself to blame.
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:52 AM   #42
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My cooktop is of a darker color than imoldernu's, and my wife never complains about it being difficult to keep clean. She just uses baking soda to clean it, and from searching youtube I see that is all that most people do. This thread makes me go out to look at it, and I see that ours is quite clean despite being 20+ year-old.

No way I would go back to coil burners! And about induction, I thought about it, but when my wife saw the heavier steel pots and pans that my sister-in-law used with her induction cook top, she said "no thanks!".
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:03 PM   #43
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ERD50, because a cooktop is glass does not mean it is an induction cooktop. Read here: Buying Guide: Induction vs Ceramic Cooktops | Harvey Norman Australia
Imoldernu has an electric coil range, not an induction range.

...
True, but from the comments and links/references that imoldernu made, it seems that his is an induction cooktop. He specifically mentioned stuff getting burnt on if it was between the pot and the glass top - that sounds like induction, an element glass top would also be hot near the pot.


I won't disagree with your observations on product improvements, I just think you are being a bit closed-minded (and a little insulting) with the idea that there is one and only one 'right' type of cooktop. There are pros/cons to just about everything.

For example, I use two 5 gallon aluminum pots for brewing beer. Getting the right kind of stainless pots (I thought maybe some forms of SS are not so good with induction, I could be wrong about that?) would be a not small expense. I'll stick with NG, thank you.

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Old 02-15-2015, 12:52 PM   #44
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NW-bound, it is not necessary to use 'heavy' pots on an induction cooktop. Why would your wife think that what your sister-in-law uses was the only thing everyone could use? Fred wears a hat, Fred is a man, therefore all men wear hats. That is the classic example of false logic.

If someone wants to consider upgrading to induction cooking, then they need to do the homework, not just look at what their sister-in-law does.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...ction+cookware

ERD50, imoldernu does not have an induction cooktop. I didn't say there is only one 'right' type of cooktop, I said there is an answer to the probem imoldernu describes. The answer is to use an induction cooktop and eliminate the problem altogether.

I have no idea how much a 5 gal pot would cost but I see the 'buy new pots' argument as a bit of a red herring. For example, my wife's existing 20 year old stainless pots and pans work perfectly well. Have a look here, sets from $55.
Induction Cookware | eBay

I realize not everyone can even afford to buy an induction range ERD50, they're expensive. But if someone is looking for a new range, what I am saying is there are better choices out there than the same old design. You just have to know to look.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:07 PM   #45
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I won't disagree with your observations on product improvements, I just think you are being a bit closed-minded (and a little insulting) with the idea that there is one and only one 'right' type of cooktop. There are pros/cons to just about everything.
There are pros and cons on everything. I've had natural gas (grew up with and it is what I have now), coil electric, smooth top (glass) electric, and induction. (I have gas now because

By far and away, the best (and not even remotely close) was induction. This truly is something where the US is just backward compared to some parts of the world. Induction is a little more expensive, but is way more functional and much better quality of life. When we bought induction I did have to replace some pans, but frankly it was a small cost and just wasn't a big deal at all. (I took a small magnet with me to the store and if the magnet stuck to the bottom of the pan then I considered buying it. My total cost to replace the few pans I needed to replace was very small).

I talk up induction simply because most people are just ignorant about it. They literally don't know what they are missing.
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:28 PM   #46
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...
I realize not everyone can even afford to buy an induction range ERD50, they're expensive...
I have not looked to see how much a residential induction stove would cost, but did look into getting a single induction burner to use in my RV. The cost as I remember was minimal, something like $50 to $100. So, I did not think a full-size oven would be that prohibitively expensive.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:53 PM   #47
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I have not looked to see how much a residential induction stove would cost, but did look into getting a single induction burner to use in my RV. The cost as I remember was minimal, something like $50 to $100. So, I did not think a full-size oven would be that prohibitively expensive.
There are some Kenmore induction cooktops in the $1250 to $1300 price range. The induction cooktop I had a few years ago was a Kenmore and worked fine. There are other brands in the $1300 to $1600 range. Of course, you can spend more.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:59 PM   #48
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I paid close to that much for my glasstop double oven 20+ years ago. Perhaps things are less expensive now.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:00 PM   #49
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There are some Kenmore induction cooktops in the $1250 to $1300 price range. The induction cooktop I had a few years ago was a Kenmore and worked fine. There are other brands in the $1300 to $1600 range. Of course, you can spend more.
Or get an electric coil or NG cooktop for 1/4th of that price and use the saved $1000 to buy a lifetime supply of Barkeepers Friend and have $900 left. (Or, learn to keep the food inside the pots ).

Aside: It's interesting how a standalone range is about 1/2 the price of separate cooktop and an oven with the same features/capacity. I guess people don't mind paying for "the look" or to avoid bending over to put something in the oven.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:06 PM   #50
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I know there wasn't a request for cleaning tips or products, but I can't resist. As someone else mentioned, a magic eraser works well. For stubborn burned on stuff, I use Bar Keeper's Friend liquid, which is apparently designed for use with glass cooktops. You have to constantly use a clean part of the towel, but it takes up pretty much everything. The powdered version cleans steel pans (like All Clad).

I greatly enjoyed gas when I had it, and DW is considering it as part of our kitchen renovation.


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Old 02-15-2015, 06:07 PM   #51
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Or get an electric coil or NG cooktop for 1/4th of that price and use the saved $1000 to buy a lifetime supply of Barkeepers Friend and have $900 left. (Or, learn to keep the food inside the pots ).

Aside: It's interesting how a standalone range is about 1/2 the price of separate cooktop and an oven with the same features/capacity. I guess people don't mind paying for "the look" or to avoid bending over to put something in the oven.
Or it could be that the house was designed for a separate cook top and oven... we have an oven with a microwave over it in the wall and a cook top in the counter top... no place to put a 'stove' unit.... and I am not willing to pay money so I could...
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:55 PM   #52
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Or it could be that the house was designed for a separate cook top and oven... we have an oven with a microwave over it in the wall and a cook top in the counter top... no place to put a 'stove' unit.... and I am not willing to pay money so I could...
Yes, it's expensive to change things if the builder or the last person who re-did the kitchen liked the look of a separate cooktop.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:30 PM   #53
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Or get an electric coil or NG cooktop for 1/4th of that price and use the saved $1000 to buy a lifetime supply of Barkeepers Friend and have $900 left. (Or, learn to keep the food inside the pots ).

Aside: It's interesting how a standalone range is about 1/2 the price of separate cooktop and an oven with the same features/capacity. I guess people don't mind paying for "the look" or to avoid bending over to put something in the oven.
I guess quality of product and quality of life means something to me. For many people, the cooktop is something used on a daily basis and having something that works far better than an electric coil and that doesn't have the disadvantages of natural gas is worth it. For me, just the safety aspects of the induction cooktop is worth the small difference in price. But, it isn't just that. The induction cooktop just flat out works better.

BTW, I would never buy a new electric coil cooktop today even if I thought it acceptable unless I wasn't planning to sell my house for a long time. Nowadays, new electric coil really isn't put into anything but the cheapest of the cheap houses. If you have an average house or above, people don't expect to see electric coil. I do think that ceramic top is acceptable for resale.

As for natural gas, they are not at all half the price of induction. Looking at the Sears web page they are fairly comparable. For example the Kenmore gas cooktop is virtually the same price as the Kenmore induction.

As far as ranges being less expensive than cooktop/wall oven combos, it is to degree a matter of taste. The issue for me with a range is not so much that I mind bending down. It is that what I take out of the oven may be very heavy and very hot and I find that much harder to do with a range than with a wall oven.

Also, I like my wall ovens because I have double ovens. Don't usually have that with a range (possible but not typical). And, if you are cooking with multiple people in the kitchen it is much nicer to have the cooktop separated from the oven since each person can be working on one while someone else is at the other. Just more convenient.

Personally, I find it way more convenient to have the wall ovens with the cooktop separate and I have a large enough kitchen to accomodate that. I recognize that not all kitchens will accommodate it.

BTW, the reason I prefer the cooktop/wall oven has nothing to do with the look of it. I don't mind the look of a range. I feel the range inferior (for me) for the reasons stated above.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:09 PM   #54
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I think induction cooktop does heat faster than ceramic cooktop, which in turn is much faster than old coil burners. But my range with a double oven still looks nice, works fairly well, and is not at all hard to keep clean (maybe we are just careful not to spill food on it). I just checked and saw that something like it still goes for $1000-$1400.

And for boiling water, nothing beats the electric kettle in terms of speed and convenience. Not only that it is fast, it turns itself off when reaching boiling temperature hence can be left unattended. For slow cooking or stewing, nothing beats my wife's thermal cooker (or vacuum pot). For stir fry or deep fry, we have a big gas burner out in the back yard so that we have no grease vapor all over the kitchen. And we have a gas grill, a smaller electric grill, and another built-in electric cook top with a sink, all in the back patio so we do not smoke up the house.

So, the interior cooktop is just one of the tools we use to prepare food, and gaining a bit of speed there would improve our life a tiny bit, but would not cause us to jump up with joy.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:43 PM   #55
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This is a very informative thread. In our last house we remodeled the kitchen from a traditional electric range with a microwave/hood over head to a counter top gas range with 5 burners, a wall oven, and a separate microwave. For a family with two teenagers the separate stations worked very well.

In my new house I will return to the traditional range/oven and overhead microwave/hood because I am very limited on space. I had been planning on a gas range because I like to cook on it and with my limited abilities in the kitchen, anything that makes it simpler will help. Living as far out in the mountains, loss of electricity for and extended period of time will always be a concern and weights the decision toward a gas cook top. I had not considered the induction cook top but will look at them. I thought they required special (and expensive) cook ware.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:05 PM   #56
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Or get an electric coil or NG cooktop for 1/4th of that price and use the saved $1000 to buy a lifetime supply of Barkeepers Friend and have $900 left. (Or, learn to keep the food inside the pots ).

Aside: It's interesting how a standalone range is about 1/2 the price of separate cooktop and an oven with the same features/capacity. I guess people don't mind paying for "the look" or to avoid bending over to put something in the oven.
Of course on a unified stove it depends on what the market the individual unit is designed for. Stoves for apartments will for example be on the cheap end.
Checking Lowes for example stoves run from the $200 range up to 3k.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:17 AM   #57
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So, the interior cooktop is just one of the tools we use to prepare food, and gaining a bit of speed there would improve our life a tiny bit, but would not cause us to jump up with joy.
Oh, I understand why someone wouldn't go out and replace a cooktop that they are currently using fine, just to get induction. I've been in my current house almost 3 years and we still have a gas cooktop as it was what was in the house when we got here. I don't like gas and I seriously thought about replacing it (and it has other issues as well), but the wall it is on has an odd angle and getting clearance to put in something else without replacing some of the granite is problematical. I wouldn't mind doing that possibly, but we ultimately plan to do a major kitchen remodel and I don't want to do that for a few years so I stick (so far) with the gas cooktop despite my dislike of it.

I will say that when I got my induction cooktop at a different house a few years ago (replacing an ancient cooktop) I truly did jump for joy...not just the speed, but everything else. Still...for the moment...I am continuing to use the gas cooktop as the time to replace is not just yet.

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Living as far out in the mountains, loss of electricity for and extended period of time will always be a concern and weights the decision toward a gas cook top. I had not considered the induction cook top but will look at them. I thought they required special (and expensive) cook ware.
No, not all that special. Just needs a magnetic bottom - stainless steel or iron works. BTW, on the electricity issue, my gas cooktop requires electricity to be on to start it, although the burners are gas. Be sure to check that if you go for gas.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:10 AM   #58
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I guess quality of product and quality of life means something to me.
Well, that's one way to say it, though it's deliberately overly broad. Of course "quality of life means something" to me, too.

I have no problems at all with a person making the decision to spend their money to buy an induction unit, or to spend an extra $1200 so that the cooktop can be located a few feet from the oven. If that brings them happiness, that's great. I waste invest a lot of money on hobbies.

Cooking ain't one of them. I derive no joy from it. I do enjoy eating, but in general I find my time better spent doing other things than preparing food. The presence or absence of an induction cooktop will not make my time spent in the kitchen any more or less enjoyable than using our present gas range.

I'm fine with a frozen lasagne baked for 80 minutes (without my attention) rather than spending an additional 60 minutes cutting, boiling, browning, and fussing before putting the thing into the oven. The "homemade" one would taste better, but not worth the sacrifice of the things I could have been doing with that time.

I can enjoy a good "fancy" meal, and a simple one. I feel pretty lucky to be wired that way. If a person can enjoy both Hamlet and Beverly Hills Cop, she is going to find more opportunities for happiness than someone who can only enjoy one or the other.

To me, a coil or gas burner has just as much absolute utility as it ever did, and some fine food has been prepared on them. There are additional options today that some people prefer, but that does not diminish the value of the older options in an absolute sense (and, for my purposes, not in a relative sense, either).
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:45 AM   #59
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My mother had a glass top for cooking and working with that convinced me that I never want a glass top. I have noticed when walking through home appliance stores that most of the electric ranges these days are glass top. If I ever need to replace my old electric coil range I will pay the big bucks to have gas brought into the kitchen rather than go with a glass top. Not only was cleaning a problem, but I didn't like the way it cooked.

Yes, the bowls with the electric coil ranges can get very gunky, but the easy solution if they get too bad is to buy new ones! Even for a frugal (cheap) person like me they are not too expensive.


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Old 02-16-2015, 09:52 AM   #60
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I'm kinda in the I cook to eat camp, but we have a roommate that is a really good cook, and does most of our meals now (though I'm still the grocery shopper) and it is only since he's been cooking that I've realized we'd benefit from an upgrade. Mostly because our oven just won't get hot enough anymore. He makes pizza a lot, and it is hard, even with preheating, to get it high enough for the crust to really cook.

Though I confess that what an upgrade will mean to us is something off of Craigslist, not any sort of induction cooktop. We still use cast iron just about every day, so the fancier stove features are not worth it to us.
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