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Old 02-14-2012, 11:54 AM   #21
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The BBC, Slashdot and others are reporting that an independent study, funded by climate skeptics including the Koch brothers has confirmed that global warming is real.

HaHa, good one...!
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:04 PM   #22
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I hold science in high regard.
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You could find as many scientist agreeing as disagreeing on any subject.......
Please pick one of the above.

The fact is that there is a huge consensus on /a/ climate change and /b/ its anthropogenic nature.

In my experience, climate change deniers tend to hold all of these beliefs more or less simultaneously:
- Scientists don't agree that the earth is warming;
- OK, so scientists do mostly agree, but that's because they're all liberals who hate America and want to take my SUV away from me;
- OK, so the earth is warming - "I never said it wasn't" - but humans didn't cause it;
- OK, so humans did cause it, but there's nothing we can do;
- There have been ice ages before; therefore, one will come along and save us;
- Anyway, it's 3 degrees below the seasonal average today, so answer that one, hippy.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:09 PM   #23
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OK, I'm not going to question that global warming exists and even that it is human habits based.

My issue is with how much guilt I should carry around about global warming? Maybe it should be 1 part in 7 billion (population based)? Or more?

How much of a lifestyle change should I accept?
- no cozy fires in stove?
- stop driving except for essentials?
- buy with primary mission to reduce CO2?
- demand others start sacrificing?
- politically let this become one of my hot button issues?
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:32 PM   #24
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OK, I'm not going to question that global warming exists and even that it is human habits based.

My issue is with how much guilt I should carry around about global warming? Maybe it should be 1 part in 7 billion (population based)? Or more?

How much of a lifestyle change should I accept?
This reaction is entirely rational. I wish that the debate could be conducted at this level - by both sides. The I-don't-like-middle-class-values people have been telling us that the sky is falling (pesticides, nuclear power, etc) for years, with the additional mantra "don't trust the scientists". Now that for once the science is on their side, they're milking it for all it's worth.

My position is nicely summarised by this clip. (Note for Americans: "Clarkson" is Jeremy Clarkson, an outspoken UK motoring journalist.)
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:37 PM   #25
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This reaction is entirely rational. I wish that the debate could be conducted at this level - by both sides. The I-don't-like-middle-class-values people have been telling us that the sky is falling (pesticides, nuclear power, etc) for years, with the additional mantra "don't trust the scientists". Now that for once the science is on their side, they're milking it for all it's worth.

My position is nicely summarised by this clip. (Note for Americans: "Clarkson" is Jeremy Clarkson, an outspoken UK motoring journalist.)
He is great.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #26
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This reaction is entirely rational. I wish that the debate could be conducted at this level - by both sides. The I-don't-like-middle-class-values people have been telling us that the sky is falling (pesticides, nuclear power, etc) for years, with the additional mantra "don't trust the scientists". Now that for once the science is on their side, they're milking it for all it's worth.

My position is nicely summarised by this clip. (Note for Americans: "Clarkson" is Jeremy Clarkson, an outspoken UK motoring journalist.)
Cute.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #27
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Note that fires in the fireplace don't contribute to climate change. The trees suck in the carbon, and release it whether they burn in your fireplace (fast oxidation) or rot on the forest floor (slow oxidation).
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #28
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My crystal ball says this thread may end up in "Bugs Bunny" territory?
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:52 PM   #29
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Note that fires in the fireplace don't contribute to climate change. The trees suck in the carbon, and release it whether they burn in your fireplace (fast oxidation) or rot on the forest floor (slow oxidation).
Thanks Al, that had not even remotely occurred to me.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:01 PM   #30
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Note that fires in the fireplace don't contribute to climate change. The trees suck in the carbon, and release it whether they burn in your fireplace (fast oxidation) or rot on the forest floor (slow oxidation).
Not according to "these scientists" Soot And Methane Reduction Key To Slowing Global Warming And Saving Lives, Study Finds? Just makes my head spin...good grief!

Who says there's no such thing as too much information, must have been before the "interwebs."
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:59 PM   #31
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Real solution: Fewer people.

It may come about naturally through some influenza H1N1 variant. Or war.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:08 PM   #32
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Cue Dr. Strangelove...

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Old 02-14-2012, 06:24 PM   #33
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Real solution: Fewer people.

It may come about naturally through some influenza H1N1 variant. Or war.
Imagine, if you will, seven billion people, consuming energy in an American kind of way...

As a general principle, I try to minimize my "footprint" on the planet. What the heck, it saves money AND helps the environment. What's not to like...
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:27 PM   #34
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Imagine, if you will, seven billion people, consuming energy in an American kind of way...

As a general principle, I try to minimize my "footprint" on the planet. What the heck, it saves money AND helps the environment. What's not to like...
You must be a Molly Ivins Texan?
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:31 PM   #35
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Imagine, if you will, seven billion people, consuming energy in an American kind of way...
The world uses ~85mm barrels of oil a day. The US uses 1/4th of that. Now if we divide 7B by 300M, we get...uh oh. Talk about a quality of life adjustment.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #36
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You must be a Molly Ivins Texan?
Judeo-Christian upbringing, with a helping of Boy Scouts...

Yep, enjoyed both Molly and Ann Richards. True originals. Liberals in a Texas kind of way.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:47 PM   #37
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Judeo-Christian upbringing, with a helping of Boy Scouts...

Yep, enjoyed both Molly and Ann Richards. True originals. Liberals in a Texas kind of way.
My ex used to get the Texas Observer. It definitely seemed that those Austin liberals were more fun than the coastal subspecies I was used to.

Ha
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:53 PM   #38
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Real solution: Fewer people.

It may come about naturally through some influenza H1N1 variant. Or war.
I think that as the root problem, with environmental issues as symptoms.

Imagine what the world would be like with only 1 billion inhabitants.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:08 PM   #39
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I think that as the root problem, with environmental issues as symptoms.

Imagine what the world would be like with only 1 billion inhabitants.
Yep, me and 999,999,999 women. I'm for it! Sorry about all you other guys, it's been great!
Ha
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