Global Warming confirmed by independent study

[donheff]

The BBC, Slashdot and others are reporting that an independent study, funded by climate skeptics including the Koch brothers has confirmed that global warming is real. As reported by the BBC, the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study came out with "a graph remarkably similar to those produced by the world's three most important and established groups, whose work had been decried as unreliable and shoddy in climate sceptic circles."

"Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK," said Prof Muller.



"This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change sceptics did not seriously affect their conclusions."


This doesn't mean that arguments about how and whether we should address GW will or should cease. And skeptics will still insist than human activity isn't a causal factor. But will they at least stop arguing that the warming trend doesn't exist?

 

[M Paquette]

The BBC, Slashdot and others are reporting that an independent study, funded by climate skeptics including the Koch brothers has confirmed that global warming is real. As reported by the BBC, the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study came out with "a graph remarkably similar to those produced by the world's three most important and established groups, whose work had been decried as unreliable and shoddy in climate sceptic circles."

"Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK," said Prof Muller.

"This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change sceptics did not seriously affect their conclusions."

This doesn't mean that arguments about how and whether we should address GW will or should cease. And skeptics will still insist than human activity isn't a causal factor. But will they at least stop arguing that the warming trend doesn't exist?

To borrow from the famous documentary film "Young Frankenstein,"

"Scientists! They say that they want to help us, but what they really want is to take over the world!"

I'll get the popcorn...

 

[travelover]

Should I just put this whole thread on ignore now or wait until I get a page full of responses from those posters already on my ignore list?

I answered my own question - it goes on ignore.

 

[GregLee]

So far as I know, there has never been any real controversy about whether the earth is getting warmer. It is. The disagreements have been about (1) whether we caused it, (2) the related matter of whether the warming trend can be arrested by reducing CO2 emissions.

 

[Texas Proud]

So far as I know, there has never been any real controversy about whether the earth is getting warmer. It is. The disagreements have been about (1) whether we caused it, (2) the related matter of whether the warming trend can be arrested by reducing CO2 emissions.

+1 on this....

and in addition... if the trend can be arrested, is it more cost effective to spend the money on some other aspect...

IIRC, the water level increase predicted was not a lot different from a 'do nothing about CO2 to reduce CO2 to some previous years level'... IOW, the results will be the about the same either way, so why waste big money on reduction when it would be better spent on mitigation of the rise of the oceans...

 

[HFWR]

A good source for science news...

ScienceDaily: Global Warming News

 

[TromboneAl]

This doesn't matter, because the world isn't interested in global warming anymore. It's interested in the debt crisis, jobs, and Michael Jackson's doctor.

 

[FinanceDude]

The Earth is getting warmer and CO2 levels are rising, much like they did before the last Ice Age.

 

[unclemick]

Yep. Even as a dyed in the wool -'Lefty', I remain sceptical that governments(aka lawyers) can alter an existing trend.

So where is my 'Red Bead Experiment?' Quant model.

heh heh heh - post Katrina I remain on a hill, a fairly high hill, above the wide Missouri. I-29 has reopened and the fighting has begun - which levees the Corps is gonna fix and who shall wait for more money - if ever.

? Will Facebook convince people world wide to alter their lifestyle enough to make any difference or will high ground become the new premium real estate?

 

[HFWR]

This doesn't matter, because the world isn't interested in global warming anymore. It's interested in the debt crisis, jobs, and Michael Jackson's doctor.

Is LiLo smoking meth, or crack?

The Earth is getting warmer and CO2 levels are rising, much like they did before the last Ice Age.

It's good to not let science get in the way of an opinion...

...will high ground become the new premium real estate?

Sea levels to continue to rise for 500 years? Long-term climate calculations suggest so

 

[FinanceDude]

It's good to not let science get in the way of an opinion...



Sea levels to continue to rise for 500 years? Long-term climate calculations suggest so

Is science always right? Maybe it is for you, but my family has several very successful scientists in it, and to say they are skeptical of global warming and climate change is an understatement..........

In order to make long-term climate calculations, you have to "assume" a lot of variables. Ya know what they say about "assumptions", right?

 

[unclemick]

Is science always right? Maybe it is for you, but my family has several very successful scientists in it, and to say they are skeptical of global warming and climate change is an understatement..........

In order to make long-term climate calculations, you have to "assume" a lot of variables. Ya know what they say about "assumptions", right?

Skip the world - just looking at the old family tree - oceanographer, geology prof., mining engineer and ex aerospace rat.

assumptions yes, opinions yes, agreement no!



heh heh heh - it will be what it will be and I'm staying on the hill just in case. PLUS - I have chains -in case of a cold winter don't ya know.

 

[HFWR]

Is science always right? Maybe it is for you, but my family has several very successful scientists in it, and to say they are skeptical of global warming and climate change is an understatement..........

In order to make long-term climate calculations, you have to "assume" a lot of variables. Ya know what they say about "assumptions", right?

I'm willing to believe what the evidence suggests, but reserve the right to be skeptical. That is not the same as rejecting the science because it is inconvenient to one's preconceived notions.

 

[FinanceDude]

That is not the same as rejecting the science because it is inconvenient to one's preconceived notions.

Glad to know you know everything about me...........

 

[HFWR]

Glad to know you know everything about me...........

Well, I have read many of your 11K+ posts...

I posted a link to a science page that features peer-reviewed journal articles, which seems like a better place to get info on this subject than either the NYT or the WSJ. You posted a flip response, backed by no references at all.

Just sayin'....

 

[FinanceDude]

Well, I have read many of your 11K+ posts...

I posted a link to a science page that features peer-reviewed journal articles, which seems like a better place to get info on this subject than either the NYT or the WSJ. You posted a flip response, backed by no references at all.

Just sayin'....

I hold science in high regard. However, there is not a consensus on global warming or man's effect on the earth. Are we having an effect? Most certainly. Are we headed toward Armageddon? Not so sure. I attended a few conventions with my scientist sister. You could find as many scientist agreeing as disagreeing on any subject.......

 

[Texas Proud]

I hold science in high regard. However, there is not a consensus on global warming or man's effect on the earth. Are we having an effect? Most certainly. Are we headed toward Armageddon? Not so sure. I attended a few conventions with my scientist sister. You could find as many scientist agreeing as disagreeing on any subject.......

You make them sound more like economists than scientists....

 

[donheff]

Yep. Even as a dyed in the wool -'Lefty', I remain sceptical that governments(aka lawyers) can alter an existing trend.

Me too. Everything I have read indicates that we are past the point of effectively reversing the trend. I hope for technological approaches to help us live with global warming and think we should be conserving gas (gas tax anyone) for national security reasons -- not in the hope of limiting our carbon footprint. And yet there have been a lot of science deniers who have argued that the warming trend itself isn't real - not just that it is a natural cycle. That is why skeptics including those rationalist Koch brothers funded this independent study. I am pleased to see that these independent new guys on the block are seeing the same thing the rest of the scientific establishment has been saying for years.

Maybe the Kochs will fund an independent study of the fossil record to check up on that evolution stuff.

 

[ERD50]

So far as I know, there has never been any real controversy about whether the earth is getting warmer. It is. The disagreements have been about (1) whether we caused it, (2) the related matter of whether the warming trend can be arrested by reducing CO2 emissions.

+1 on this....

and in addition... if the trend can be arrested, is it more cost effective to spend the money on some other aspect...

IIRC, the water level increase predicted was not a lot different from a 'do nothing about CO2 to reduce CO2 to some previous years level'... IOW, the results will be the about the same either way, so why waste big money on reduction when it would be better spent on mitigation of the rise of the oceans...

Those two sum up my view also.

So I think the question is not just 'But will they at least stop arguing that the warming trend doesn't exist?', but 'who are 'they'? If 'they' are not aware that the earth is warmer than it was in the ice age, I doubt this latest study will have any impact on them.

The other questions are far more important - what can we do about it? Should we try to change it, or adapt to it, or both?

-ERD50

 

[veremchuka]

Global warming doesn't exist, Chuck Norris was cold so he turned up the sun.

 

[SpencerM]

The BBC, Slashdot and others are reporting that an independent study, funded by climate skeptics including the Koch brothers has confirmed that global warming is real.

HaHa, good one...!

 

[BigNick]

I hold science in high regard.

You could find as many scientist agreeing as disagreeing on any subject.......

Please pick one of the above.

The fact is that there is a huge consensus on /a/ climate change and /b/ its anthropogenic nature.

In my experience, climate change deniers tend to hold all of these beliefs more or less simultaneously:
- Scientists don't agree that the earth is warming;
- OK, so scientists do mostly agree, but that's because they're all liberals who hate America and want to take my SUV away from me;
- OK, so the earth is warming - "I never said it wasn't" - but humans didn't cause it;
- OK, so humans did cause it, but there's nothing we can do;
- There have been ice ages before; therefore, one will come along and save us;
- Anyway, it's 3 degrees below the seasonal average today, so answer that one, hippy.

 

[Lsbcal]

OK, I'm not going to question that global warming exists and even that it is human habits based.

My issue is with how much guilt I should carry around about global warming? Maybe it should be 1 part in 7 billion (population based)? Or more?

How much of a lifestyle change should I accept?
- no cozy fires in stove?
- stop driving except for essentials?
- buy with primary mission to reduce CO2?
- demand others start sacrificing?
- politically let this become one of my hot button issues?

 

[BigNick]

OK, I'm not going to question that global warming exists and even that it is human habits based.

My issue is with how much guilt I should carry around about global warming? Maybe it should be 1 part in 7 billion (population based)? Or more?

How much of a lifestyle change should I accept?

This reaction is entirely rational. I wish that the debate could be conducted at this level - by both sides. The I-don't-like-middle-class-values people have been telling us that the sky is falling (pesticides, nuclear power, etc) for years, with the additional mantra "don't trust the scientists". Now that for once the science is on their side, they're milking it for all it's worth.

My position is nicely summarised by this clip. (Note for Americans: "Clarkson" is Jeremy Clarkson, an outspoken UK motoring journalist.)

 

[haha]

This reaction is entirely rational. I wish that the debate could be conducted at this level - by both sides. The I-don't-like-middle-class-values people have been telling us that the sky is falling (pesticides, nuclear power, etc) for years, with the additional mantra "don't trust the scientists". Now that for once the science is on their side, they're milking it for all it's worth.

My position is nicely summarised by this clip. (Note for Americans: "Clarkson" is Jeremy Clarkson, an outspoken UK motoring journalist.)

He is great.