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Old 06-26-2009, 08:14 PM   #41
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I read this on CNN and it kinda struck a chord with me--

CNN iReporter Egberto Willies of Kingwood, Texas, summed up the conflicting feelings Jackson engendered among his admirers:

"I grew up on Michael Jackson," Willies said in a video post on iReport.com. "I loved Michael Jackson. I hated Michael Jackson. I admired Michael Jackson. I was ashamed of Michael Jackson. I was sorry for Michael Jackson. I was proud of Michael Jackson."

Michael Jackson tributes appear all over U.S. - CNN.com
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:15 PM   #42
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...
Not to mention that Farrah Fawcett was way hotter, and turned out to be a fine actress and not just another pretty face.
....
Dunno man - for a while MJ was cuter in the face than his sister Janet. Never really got FF - the poster on permanent prominent display in my juvenile mind room is of Raquel Welch in her bunny skin bikini from the 1 million BC movie poster. Never saw that movie - figured after the poster it couldn't compete. Lots of great leaders and artists are pretty freaky and not people i would want to be around - horrible to their partners, sleazy & disgusting. But the talent shines. Kind of a shame that we learn about all the warts and foibles and perversity - it can detract from the enjoyment of the work. Feel that way about otherwise effective politicians who *shock* have genetalia and human weaknesses. Or abusively aggresive cops who reduce respect for the badge. Lots of news i don't need to know and don't want to use.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:24 PM   #43
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I have to admit that I laughed first about his freak shows and didn't feel anything when i heard about his death. Today I feel different after someone told me that I don't know how it is until I walk in their shoes. I now think he is genuinely talented and a good person.
In this case, you'd have to moonwalk in his shoes...
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:07 PM   #44
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Deepak Chopra and Lisa Marie Presly had some interesting things to say about his addiction to oxycontin. It had been going on for a long time as she divorced him in 1996 and apparently that was the reason for the divorce. Got to love the doctors prescribing the drugs for him. I wonder if his hearing was affected like Rush's.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:43 PM   #45
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OK, the TV coverage is starting to make me ill. Shades of Anna Nicole Smith.
Instead of a musically gifted, self indulgent fool he is now the second coming of Christ. The rush for ratings is on.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:51 PM   #46
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....I've heard several people say MJ was a great businessman, but yet he squandered several fortunes and end up deeply in debt.

I have not heard anybody say he was a great businessman... a great talent, someone who could recognize and develop talent.. great singer, dancer, entertainer... all yes... great businessman

Now, sometimes what he did turned out to be a good decision, like buying the Beatles songs, but that was more luck IMO than he being a great businessman...
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:40 PM   #47
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Never really got FF - the poster on permanent prominent display in my juvenile mind room is of Raquel Welch in her bunny skin bikini from the 1 million BC movie poster.
The submarine I served on in the 1980s was commissioned in 1976, and the far-sighted commissioning engineer officer managed to get both of those posters on the back of his stateroom door. They were turned over from one engineer to the next for the life of the sub. It was the only reason a junior officer ever cared to go near that place.

By the 40th or 50th day of patrol, fistfights would break out over which poster was a better representation of what we were fighting to protect...
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Old 06-27-2009, 04:07 AM   #48
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I have not heard anybody say he was a great businessman... a great talent, someone who could recognize and develop talent.. great singer, dancer, entertainer... all yes... great businessman

Now, sometimes what he did turned out to be a good decision, like buying the Beatles songs, but that was more luck IMO than he being a great businessman...
Consider yourself fortunate Texas.

Yesterday in a desperate but futile attempt to escape MJ mania, I listened to BBC World radio program. Alas a mere 20 of 30 minutes of the show was devoted to the gloved one. Including this exchange.

"now we turn to business correspondent Jack. Jack prior to this job covered the music scene for many years and has a unique look at Michael Jackson.

"That's right Jill, the thing most people don't know was what a great businessman Michael Jackson. [a few factoid about how many gizzillion records he sold how it help the record label, the number of copies Thriller sold ya da ya da] Michael also in gain controled of the entire Beatles back in such and such year.

Jill: "But Jack was Michael really responsible for all of his good business deal or was it his people"

Jack: "He had help but Michael was the one doing the negotation he was really a tough businessman and shred negotiater."

At this point I started screaming at the radio. If he is such a great businessman why is he broke

I am waiting for somebody to nominate him for sainthood.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:52 AM   #49
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I have not heard anybody say he was a great businessman... a great talent, someone who could recognize and develop talent.. great singer, dancer, entertainer... all yes... great businessman

Now, sometimes what he did turned out to be a good decision, like buying the Beatles songs, but that was more luck IMO than he being a great businessman...
Don't forget that MJ worked with Quincy Jones, one of the best music business managers who ever lived. And oh, he's not broke.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:45 AM   #50
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If he is such a great businessman why is he broke

I'll just hazard a guess here, but it probably had something to do with the lawsuits and charges of sex with children. That'll dent your record sales and promotional deals...
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #51
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I once read regarding Elvis, that when he died -his was in his artistic decline- one of his managers said "great career move". I think this applies to MJ too.
There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:21 PM   #52
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I once read regarding Elvis, that when he died -his was in his artistic decline- one of his managers said "great career move". I think this applies to MJ too.
There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.
Janis Joplin's death was the worst, for me. She was so young and so depressed (and so stoned) - - she never really got to experience the best life has to offer.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:08 PM   #53
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There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.
Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste. I happen to think that Elvis was overrated and had little, if any, creative genius to him; No doubt, he was iconic, and a showman, but he was kinda of limited as an entertainer. Lennon is another matter as far as creativity goes and lasting impact, but it's hard to separate him from the creative genius of the Beatles, as a group. I happen to think two of the other Beatles had just as much talent and creativity as Lennon. And none of these folks had the full range of entertainment talent as Michael Jackson.

As for Freddy Mercury, well, I never followed him though he had amazing vocal chords.

Michael Jackson, weirdness aside, was the first truly global, cross-over performer, with prodigious talents in dance and showmanship, and some song-writing ability. Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Unlike any of the performers you mentioned, MJ was a fashion icon and pioneered a music genre; i.e. music videos. The "Thriller" video and album will have perhaps more cultural impact than Sgt. Peppers or anything Elvis created.

On a smaller scale, my son heard about the death out in the hot sands of Afghanistan in a remote, desolate part of that County before my daughter in Bosie ID heard about it; my 82 year old mother in a nursing home, facing the slow onslaught of dementia, lamented the death as we talked over the phone today; and my 90 year old mother-in-law was distressed about the death. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:19 PM   #54
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Don't forget that MJ worked with Quincy Jones, one of the best music business managers who ever lived. And oh, he's not broke.

As this article says it will take years to untangle MJ finances. Most articles I've seen say he was overspending in the range of $30-$50 million/year and racked up $300-$500 million in debt. So other than touring, dying is one of the best things that could happen to his estate.

His biggest asset is his share of the Beatles songs and his own songs and I have seen estimate they are worth a $1 billion so if that is true he is technically not broke. How much musical assets are worth in a era of rampant piracy is anybodies guess. IMO, in this economy, much less than people expect. My guess is that outside of the trust set up for kids, his debts at the time of death exceed his assets. We will see.
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Old 06-27-2009, 04:04 PM   #55
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Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste. I happen to think that Elvis was overrated and had little, if any, creative genius to him; No doubt, he was iconic, and a showman, but he was kinda of limited as an entertainer. Lennon is another matter as far as creativity goes and lasting impact, but it's hard to separate him from the creative genius of the Beatles, as a group. I happen to think two of the other Beatles had just as much talent and creativity as Lennon. And none of these folks had the full range of entertainment talent as Michael Jackson.

As for Freddy Mercury, well, I never followed him though he had amazing vocal chords.

Michael Jackson, weirdness aside, was the first truly global, cross-over performer, with prodigious talents in dance and showmanship, and some song-writing ability. Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Unlike any of the performers you mentioned, MJ was a fashion icon and pioneered a music genre; i.e. music videos. The "Thriller" video and album will have perhaps more cultural impact than Sgt. Peppers or anything Elvis created.

On a smaller scale, my son heard about the death out in the hot sands of Afghanistan in a remote, desolate part of that County before my daughter in Bosie ID heard about it; my 82 year old mother in a nursing home, facing the slow onslaught of dementia, lamented the death as we talked over the phone today; and my 90 year old mother-in-law was distressed about the death. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.
Blasphemy!
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:10 PM   #56
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Blasphemy!
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:28 PM   #57
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Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste.
Agree
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Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.
Disagree. Yes, he was very popular. Madonna is very popular. McDonalds is very popular, but nobody calls it excellent food. USA Today is very popular, but nobody calls it stellar journalism.

But, as you say, it is very much a matter of taste.

I'm more interested in why, on their death, some people mourn these performers so deeply, and the news vultures find it necessary to deluge us with retrospectives and memorials. There are real stories of greatness out there, but these aren't it. For my money, the guy who guts it out in a mind-numbing factory job for 30 years to provide for his family and put the kids through school, or the single mom who somehow raises her kids while working and going to night school are the heroes out there. I'm just not too interested in the accomplishments of sports stars and celebrities.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:39 PM   #58
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Blasphemy!
+1

Of course this is absolutely in the area of personal preference and subjectivity, but I never got the excitement over MJ. But with people like Quincy Jones praising him, there must be something to it.

As far as 'Beat It!", AFAIC, one of the worst things about MJ passing is how many times I've been subjected lately to that (IMO) boring, repetitive, non-dynamic drone of sound that passes as 'music'. I don't need that stuck in my head. Sorry. Took a good hour of Hendrix to drive that from my brain He had a mega-hit with it, people like it, good for him, that's fine, I just don't get it. I don't get McDonald's popularity either.

A few months back I again heard his "Rockin' Robin", recorded when he (and I) was a youngster - I have to say, his voice was amazing on that song; clear, exciting, uplifting - really an amazing recording. I can't think of anything else that he did that I like. I recall a sickening sweet love song to a rat (Ben?) - no thanks!

Maybe Elvis wasn't 'original' since others were performing that music w/o public notice. But, taking a style and getting it out to the public is an art form in itself. There are not too many Elvis songs that I care for, but AFAIC his recording of "Heartbreak Hotel" alone is almost enough to justify his stature.

To each their own, whatever. I really don't understand the financial side of his life. Who gives these celebrities the leverage to go so far in debt? Wouldn't you be concerned that someone as unstable as this guy would never pay you back? Strange.

-ERD50

whoops, I see samclem already gave the McDonald's reference - oh well, I'm too lazy to edit....
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:55 PM   #59
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Its time for "bizarro world" to go to a new level as Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton descend into the MJ news morass. Be prepared to be dragged through MJ's family's dirty underwear for the next 3 years. You won't be able to avoid it.
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:59 AM   #60
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I recall a sickening sweet love song to a rat (Ben?) - no thanks!

That was the main song for a movie (if you did not know).... I don't think he woke up one day and said "I will write a love song to a rat"....
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