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Old 11-10-2010, 01:12 PM   #21
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A lot of states' pensions are in trouble; that doesn't mean the private sector is going to bail them out.

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You're right, the private sector may not bail them out. But public sector employees are crying for the private sector to do so. It'll be interesting to see if the tax payers have the fortitude to demand no tax increases now when they can't afford them or if they'll roll over and pony up.......
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:32 PM   #22
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I "borrowed" these tidbits from FedSmith.com...
For what purpose?
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:36 PM   #23
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I somewhat agree, but to continue with this "housing purchase" analogy, the public retirement benefit equivalent situation would be if the folks who bought in the "right" areas were suddenly seeing their real estate values threaten to crash like those who bought in the wrong areas.... and those in the affluent areas are seeking to use public money so everyone has to pitch in to prop up the values of the affluent housing while no one helps prop up the value of the homes of those who bought in the "wrong" areas.

And all the while, those who bought in the "right" areas never cared about what happened to those who bought in the "wrong" places. And those who bought in the "wrong" places are being expected to see some more of their tax money go to propping up the affluent neighborhoods -- even as the favor was never returned to them.
I agree, it sucks, and I think I see your point. I still gotta play the "well, life ain't fair card". It seems to me this is akin to "blaming" the stock/housing/etc. market.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:38 PM   #24
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You're right, the private sector may not bail them out. But public sector employees are crying for the private sector to do so. It'll be interesting to see if the tax payers have the fortitude to demand no tax increases now when they can't afford them or if they'll roll over and pony up.......
I hope we/the tax payers don't bail them out, but there isn't much choice (not to or to bail 'em out, either way). I don't recall voting to save Goldman Sachs, etc. Just that it must be done, "trust us". Here I go again, armchair quarterbackin'.

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Old 11-10-2010, 01:55 PM   #25
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but there isn't much choice (not to or to bail 'em out, either way). I don't recall voting to save Goldman Sachs, etc. Just that it must be done, "trust us". Here I go again, armchair quarterbackin'.

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The voters may not have had an opportunity (referendum-like) to vote for the Goldman Sachs bailout, but they did seem to comment on it in the recent elections...........
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:22 PM   #26
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I think the real issue in all these posts is unsustainable spending by state, local, and federal govt to pay "promises made when times were good, and even when they were not so good". Of course, noone wants THEIR benefits cut, but the choices at this point seem to be cuts, or cutting positions. Look at California, they are a mess and essentially bankrupt. What are they going to do?

I realize these benefits are based on signed contracts and need to be honored. However, I also know in my community that the teachers got a 3.5% increase in 2009 and a 4% increase in pay during a recession, and have threatened to strike next fall if there is not a contract in place that does not give them yearly merit increases in pay and no increase in what THEY pay for healthcare, (currently $25 a month no matter what size the family). Something has to give.........
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:46 PM   #27
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The voters may not have had an opportunity (referendum-like) to vote for the Goldman Sachs bailout, but they did seem to comment on it in the recent elections...........
The voters were obviously in favor of the Goldman Sachs bailout.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:49 PM   #28
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Concept like "average salary" and "average compensation" are apples and oranges because the mix of government jobs and the mix of private jobs are different.
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Probably true, and if we all know this; why don't the reporters?

My answer would be that the current model of reporting is out of date in the info age. Having a general reporter analyze a finance/accounting/tax issue is out of date.

But, why hasn't this been pointed out to them and they correct the analysis? I don't know.
Ziggy is right and the reporters and their media don't give a damn because they are all about eyeballs and entertainment. "Federal workers earn twice the private sector" is a catchy headline. "Pay setting process is complex and cumbersome" won't generate a second look. The Federal pay setting process is extremely cumbersome and varies significantly between blue collar (WG) wage surveys and white collar (GS) comparisons. But in both cases the pay setting studies attempt to compare similar job categories in similar organizations. There is plenty of room for change and a lot of reasons to doubt the technical findings (which almost always find Federal workers underpaid compared to their supposed apples to apples comparators) but these "vastly overpaid" articles are a joke.

Just to outline some of the problems, the blue collar surveys (which really do look apples to apples by job category) are probably far too affected by union pay scales in the private sector. On the GS side, jobs are slotted into GS levels based on descriptions of the work (and ultimately how similar work in the private sector is paid). Pay inflation results from jobs being described as much more complex than the actual work being done. To a large degree that comes from pressure by Federal mangers to "upgrade" employees so they can attract and keep the best. But, if you don't think similar things are happening in corporate pay settings, I have a nice bridge to sell you
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:24 PM   #29
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The voters were obviously in favor of the Goldman Sachs bailout.
Yes, obviously........
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