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Grammar and logic
Old 10-25-2011, 09:18 PM   #1
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Grammar and logic

This is from the thread on This COLA has no Fizz



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Originally Posted by thefinancebuff View Post
False premise. COLA is never meant to jump-start the economy.
It's not a false premise, because it is not a premise.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Halloween is approaching and we're being haunted by the ghost of Emeritus...
ghost of Emeritus or maybe just incorrect

OP stated: If you are counting on seniors to help jump-start the economy [because of COLA]... forget about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong... OP shoots the notion down, but anyone that happens to believe the "if" *is* stating an implied premise -- "increased spending will improve the economy", and in support of that conclusion "a COLA increase is an increase in spending (or sufficient increase in spending)".

And yes, this is obviously more of an OT English Lesson , but inquiring minds...
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertj View Post
ghost of Emeritus or maybe just incorrect

OP stated: If you are counting on seniors to help jump-start the economy [because of COLA]... forget about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong... OP shots the notion down, but anyone that happens to believe the "if" *is* stating an implied premise -- "increased spending will improve the economy", and in support of that conclusion "a COLA increase is an increase in spending".
I'm pretty sure GregLee is correct about the grammar. It's just that it gets pretty tedious when posters continually correct grammar and spelling of other members.

btw - "OP shots the notion down" ??
did you mean "OP shot the notion down" or "OP shoots the notion down"
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertj View Post
OP stated: If you are counting on seniors to help jump-start the economy [because of COLA]... forget about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong... OP shoots the notion down, but anyone that happens to believe the "if" *is* stating an implied premise -- "increased spending will improve the economy", and in support of that conclusion "a COLA increase is an increase in spending (or sufficient increase in spending)".
That reasoning is a little tricky, isn't it?. What follows "if" is not "increased spending will improve the economy", but actually "you are counting on seniors to help jump-start the economy because ...".. And if the sentence after "if" is the premise of an argument, what's the conclusion?. "Forget about it!"?
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
btw - "OP shots the notion down" ??
did you mean "OP shot the notion down" or "OP shoots the notion down"
Tsk, tsk.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:43 AM   #6
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Well, folks, grammar is what I did for 40 years, so it interests me. Besides, the relationship between the premise of an argument and the antecedent of an if-construction has more to do with logic than with grammar. Anyone interested at all in logic?
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:34 PM   #7
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Well, it certainly shows there isn't much interest, since I just pointed out that it isn't a matter of grammar. Clearly, no one is listening.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Well, it certainly shows there isn't much interest, since I just pointed out that it isn't a matter of grammar. Clearly, no one is listening.
I am...

Logic....



PS... I kind of like the grammar issues also... it might be to late to fix me, but at least I might stop passing along bad info if I read it... like the one or two spaces after a sentence...
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:45 PM   #9
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Well, it certainly shows there isn't much interest, since I just pointed out that it isn't a matter of grammar. Clearly, no one is listening.
Is it philosophy (logic) or linguistics
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
Is it philosophy (logic) or linguistics
Logic (not philosophy). A premise can be converted into an "if" antecedent by the logical rule of implication introduction, or an antecedent into a premise, by the logical rule of modus ponens. So there's a relationship. But they're not the same, because statements (where antecedents are) are not logically like arguments (where premises are). You can attack an argument by showing that its premise is false, but you can't appropriately attack an implication statement by showing that its antecedent is false. This is why I disagreed with the contention that the article under discussion had a false premise.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
Is it philosophy (logic) or linguistics
[I replied to this in the other thread before the move. Here is what I wrote there:]

Logic (not philosophy). A premise can be converted into an "if" antecedent by the logical rule of implication introduction, or an antecedent into a premise, by the logical rule of modus ponens. So there's a relationship. But they're not the same, because statements (where antecedents are) are not logically like arguments (where premises are). You can attack an argument by showing that its premise is false, but you can't appropriately attack an implication statement by showing that its antecedent is false. This is why I disagreed with the contention that the article under discussion had a false premise.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:40 PM   #12
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it might be to late to fix me,
Why yes, yes it is!

But you're loved and appreciated just the way you are..........

Edit: BTW, it's too late, not to late.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:46 PM   #13
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Well, folks, grammar is what I did for 40 years, so it interests me.
Wrong tense. You're still doing it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:52 PM   #14
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That thread was struck by fizzy logic.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:54 PM   #15
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GregLee, perhaps you should update your avatar to more accurately reflect your calling.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:58 PM   #16
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Wrong tense. You're still doing it.
No, I'm not. I've gone to some pains to show that the issue I raised was not one of grammar. Having studied grammar for so long, I probably have got a pretty good idea of what it is not.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
by the logical rule of modus ponens.
Oh baby, modus ponens!
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:03 PM   #18
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No, I'm not. I've gone to some pains to show that the issue I raised was not one of grammar. Having studied grammar for so long, I probably have got a pretty good idea of what it is not.
There Gregster, fixed it fer ya! Ya don't need ta "got" a pretty good idea, just have it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #19
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Huh? Makes me glad I missed the original screening.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:07 PM   #20
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GregLee, perhaps you should update your avatar to more accurately reflect your calling.
The sort of grammar I have done is about understanding why people talk the way they do. It has nothing whatever to do with finding those who break rules or somehow improving their behavior. So I don't think your suggested avatar would be good for me. Like many of you, I have my own class prejudices about proper speech, but if I express those prejudices, occasionally, it is unrelated to my background in grammar.
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