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Guilty until proven innocent
Old 04-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #1
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Guilty until proven innocent

I came across this last night:

He says social services should have looked harder for an explanation for Alyssa's injuries, instead of wrongly accusing Dave and Tiffany of child abuse.
“We knew, from the first day, that they were innocent, that there was no way that they could have abused that child in any way,” he said. “That's the point we kept trying to get across. You have got to be looking for something else. It’s not child abuse.”




It's one of the most sad cases I've read. I know not all hospitals, doctors are bad, but yet, I can't help but think there is so much tunnel vision assuming that the parents/patients are guilty, ignorant before even thinking outside the box.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:29 PM   #2
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This is, unfortunately a knee-jerk reaction many people have. One of my fears is that if something really bad happens to my wife, the knee-jerk reaction will be to consider me as the prime suspect ("the husband did it") -- effectively victimizing me a second time. There's not much I can do about that except (a) hope due process and a fair, thorough investigation excluded me and (b) people whose opinions I care about would accept that I was innocent and not continue treating me with suspicion as someone who "got away with it".

I'm also paranoid about not being alone with children -- I get away from those situations unless there's another adult present as a witness. I don't need some kid who is mad at me accusing me of something bad that I didn't do, and ruining my reputation for life even if there was no evidence to go after me.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:41 PM   #3
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What gets me scared is how so many missed what was going on until finally one doctor realized that no, it's a rare illness and not abuse. In the meantime, there the parents were, lost and whichever professionals they turned to, were thought of as abusive parents.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:05 PM   #4
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Most social services workers are just trying to do the best they can. But it is scary when they are incompetent, or worse, malevolent - witness this incident and ones like the McMartin Day Care abuse witch hunt. Same applies to anyone with power over the citizens they "serve" - you read about prosecutorial abuses all the time. Again, only a small fraction are bad apples but there should be a remedy when those few are exposed.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:45 AM   #5
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I'm also paranoid about not being alone with children -- I get away from those situations unless there's another adult present as a witness. I don't need some kid who is mad at me accusing me of something bad that I didn't do, and ruining my reputation for life even if there was no evidence to go after me.
It's very sad what our society is turning into. When we were traveling in Italy, we saw young boys and girls walking alone to/from schools in Rome even though there are more priests and nuns around because of the Vatican City. I can not imagine what would happen if Vatican were in this country. My head will explode.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:21 AM   #6
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To me the guy had a loose screw.... the time frame for this has to be less than 4 months... The little girl was 3 months when taken to the hospital and 7 months when she died...


And I think we have all heard the other side, given the benefit of the doubt kids are left with their parents and then killed...


The system is designed to err on the side of protecting children... and who would need more protection than a 3 month old baby

So, I disagree with the OP.... I do not think the system did anything wrong here.... except for maybe his lawyer who told him he was going to jail....
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #7
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I think the real tragedy in this day and age is that the concept of innocent until proven guilty has been replaced with Nancy Grace like justice and prosecution by the media as being guilty without knowing all the facts. Certainly with children, its best to err on the side of over protectionism, but in so many cases its hard to see many getting a fair trial.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:21 AM   #8
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It's very sad what our society is turning into. When we were traveling in Italy, we saw young boys and girls walking alone to/from schools in Rome even though there are more priests and nuns around because of the Vatican City. I can not imagine what would happen if Vatican were in this country. My head will explode.
Ummm, what do you think would happen??
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:00 PM   #9
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I think the real tragedy in this day and age is that the concept of innocent until proven guilty has been replaced with Nancy Grace like justice and prosecution by the media as being guilty without knowing all the facts. Certainly with children, its best to err on the side of over protectionism, but in so many cases its hard to see many getting a fair trial.
I agree completely. I've known of someone who were wrongly accused and it's a terrible thing. Parading people infront of the media for crimes they supposedly committed without their day in court is absolutely wrong in my view.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:03 PM   #10
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I'm also paranoid about not being alone with children -- I get away from those situations unless there's another adult present as a witness. I don't need some kid who is mad at me accusing me of something bad that I didn't do, and ruining my reputation for life even if there was no evidence to go after me.
I've read of stories where even your own spouse can accuse you of molesting your children; especially when there's a custody issue involved. Many men have had their livelihood and reputation destroyed because of this false allegation.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #11
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Being falsely accused and even jailed is terrible. "Absolutely wrong" if you will. But no matter how bad, it doesn't in any way excuse murder-suicide. This is a tragic story, but the actions of the father are still unpardonable.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:05 PM   #12
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Being falsely accused and even jailed is terrible. "Absolutely wrong" if you will. But no matter how bad, it doesn't in any way excuse murder-suicide. This is a tragic story, but the actions of the father are still unpardonable.
You're assuming that someone that engages in this behavior is rationale. I don't think that assumption is accurate in most if not all murder/suicides.
Some people have weak mental constitution and can snap under extreme pressue. It happens many times a day when people kill themselves.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:30 AM   #13
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I've read of stories where even your own spouse can accuse you of molesting your children; especially when there's a custody issue involved. Many men have had their livelihood and reputation destroyed because of this false allegation.
I also heard the similar story. The wife accused the husband for having inappropriate physical touch on their daughter to gain custody of their children and she won. Later on, she and her children were forced to move in with her BIL temporarily because she didn't save any penny for herself and children even with alimony and children support from her ex.

Maybe I miss something, it seems that the more protective and vigilant we're getting, the less secure we feel and more paranoid we become.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:37 AM   #14
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I wonder how much there is to these stories that is left untold or unexplored. The news media is not known for in depth analysis and even-handed, objective, and fact based reporting.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #15
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I wonder how much there is to these stories that is left untold or unexplored. The news media is not known for in depth analysis and even-handed, objective, and fact based reporting.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:58 AM   #16
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Being falsely accused and even jailed is terrible. "Absolutely wrong" if you will. But no matter how bad, it doesn't in any way excuse murder-suicide. This is a tragic story, but the actions of the father are still unpardonable.
That's what makes the story even more tragic. They were loving parents, until the pressures made him snap into insanity to destroy everything that he loved.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:36 AM   #17
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I also heard the similar story. The wife accused the husband for having inappropriate physical touch on their daughter to gain custody of their children and she won. Later on, she and her children were forced to move in with her BIL temporarily because she didn't save any penny for herself and children even with alimony and children support from her ex.

Maybe I miss something, it seems that the more protective and vigilant we're getting, the less secure we feel and more paranoid we become.
Yeh, we live in a crazy time. I can tell you that I have lived elsewhere but I've seen the most hysteria and paranoia here, mostly driven by the media and lawyers who stand to gain a lot.
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