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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 11:15 AM   #61
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Re: Hastert should resign?

I looove Glenn Greenwald:

Quote:
Mark Foley and the Unmasked Republican Party
Denny Hastert is smack in the middle of one of the tawdriest and ugliest sex scandals in American political history. As a result, he has been the target of aggressive criticism, even from a few members of his own party, and, by all accounts, is desperately battling to keep his job.

In need of moral absolution and support from a respected and admired figure who possesses moral authority among Hastert's morally upstanding Republican base, to whom does Hastert turn? A priest or respected reverend? An older wise political statesman with a reputation for integrity and dignity? No, there is only one person with sufficient moral credibility among the increasingly uncomfortable moralistic Republican base who can give Hastert the blessing he needs:

Rush Limbaugh. And so that is where Hastert went yesterday in order to obtain the Decree that He Did Nothing Wrong.

As much as I tried -- and, trust me, I really tried -- I couldn't expunge this picture from my mind yesterday because, in all its visceral hideousness, it really illustrates what I think is the principal reason why this Foley scandal is resonating so strongly. This is the real face of the ruling Republican party, and it has been unmasked -- violently -- by the exposure of Mark Foley and his allies who protected and harbored him.

If the term "moral degenerate" has any validity and can be fairly applied to anyone, there are few people who merit that term more than Rush Limbaugh. He is the living and breathing embodiment of moral degeneracy, with his countless overlapping sexual affairs, his series of shattered, dissolved marriages, his hedonistic and illegal drug abuse, his jaunts, with fistfulls of Viagra (but no wife), to an impoverished Latin American island renowned for its easy access to underage female prostitutes.
Tell it, brother!
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 01:20 PM   #62
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Intersting thread..............

I always keep in mind the following "rules"

1)If a Dem does something very wrong, he is "troubled", "has problems", and we "support him"..........

2)If a GOP member does something wrong, it's "hang him high", "I'm livid", and "They should ALL resign"..........

Thanks for clarifying things.............where's the Independent party signup??
Always seems exactly opposite this to me.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 01:25 PM   #63
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Re: Hastert should resign?

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I don't get you on that one. "Takes too long to matter?" I would think that an investigation could be done in a few weeks, no? . . .
In Washington D.C. you think that an investigation could be done in a few weeks? Let's ask the attorneys on the board if they think that could happen knowing how many attorneys would be working for any guilty parties doing everything in their power to drag the process out to beyond the election. I don't think Washington could even get committees appointed and scheduled to meet to talk about the shape of the table in two weeks. Then they would have to talk about the camera placement in the committee room, what color microphones to use. . . I'm thinking an investigation would take at least 3 months -- if the case is simple enough.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 01:29 PM   #64
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus
you more interested in protecting the pages and making sure it doesn't occur again?
Yes
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 03:50 PM   #65
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Re: Hastert should resign?

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Always seems exactly opposite this to me.

It seems to me that when ever any of them do something wrong they go to rehab... their all sick and we voted them in!!!! :

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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 04:00 PM   #66
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Greenwald again.. couldn't agree more.

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Mark Foley was literally at the center of virtually every activity and law and program over the last 10 years ostensibly designed to battle the evils of Internet sex and minors. Mark Foley spent 12 years in Congress and it is not an exaggeration to say that he basically devoted his whole Congressional career to adding decades of imprisonment on to the mandatory punishments for those who use the Internet to talk about sex with children. He didn't just condemn that which he was doing. He made the crusade against it his life's work, in the most vocal and public way possible.

Mark Foley isn't some isolated case of shocking hypocrisy. Quite the contrary. People who have a publicly and vocally expressed obsession with other people's moral behavior and who want to use the power of the Government to enforce that obsession -- the Rick Santorums and Rush Limbaughs and Newt Gingrichs and Jim Bakkers and Ralph Reeds and Mark Foleys of the world -- are almost always fighting their own demons, not anyone else's.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 05:51 PM   #67
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Re: Hastert should resign?

After a number of complaints--sorry I didn't get to them earlier, I deleted from this thread the unnecessary and insulting posts.

Back to the show. . . .
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 06:26 PM   #68
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Re: Hastert should resign?

My two cents:

-It's always great to see a moral crusader, particularly one who made a career -- a career full of power and money -- by selling "but what about the children?!?!" to a dim-witted or crusading populace, get destroyed by his own peccadilloes, particularly in such a delightfully deserving way as this jerk.
-It's also somewhat amusing, though far less so (and in an unfortunate way), to witness "liberals" who used to fight for personal liberties now picking on a guy for being homosexual and interested in young adults, threatening to "out" other sexual "deviants" in politics, and generally being intolerant of sexual diversity.
-What actually makes this creature such an a**hole, in my opinion, isn't that he was gay or that his interest was in young adults, but his manipulative abuse of individuals under his authority -- and, on top of that and for good measure: his belief that he was above the law, his aforementioned moral crusading, and the all-around pathetic display he put on during and after his imbroglio.

(There, now everyone should hate me! ...except, of course, other rational non-partisan folks, but I know there aren't many of us.)
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 07:39 PM   #69
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Dood
My two cents:

-It's also somewhat amusing, though far less so (and in an unfortunate way), to witness "liberals" who used to fight for personal liberties now picking on a guy for being homosexual and interested in young adults,
So dude, what liberals are picking on him for being gay or interested in young adults? He is being picked on for pursuing teenagers - 16 years old to be exact. Which sex isn't even an issue - at least not for liberals. I did hear Paul Weyrich on NPR today saying that Foley should have been bared from the page committee because he is gay and it is a well known *fact* that homosexuals are preoccuppied with sex. If Weyrich is what you mean by liberal ignore the rest of my rant.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 07:43 PM   #70
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
So dude, what liberals are picking on him for being gay or interested in young adults? He is being picked on for pursuing teenagers - 16 years old to be exact.
So, when a blonde schoolteacher pursues a 14-year-old boy it's hot, and when an old white guy pursues 16-year-old boys he's a pedophile?

There's an inconsistency somewhere... it's a shame Cut-Throat's not here right now to help us clarify our thinking.

http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...p?topic=9524.0
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 07:58 PM   #71
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
So, when a blonde schoolteacher pursues a 14-year-old boy it's hot, and when an old white guy pursues 16-year-old boys he's a pedophile?

There's an inconsistency somewhere...
No inconsistency: Foley is not blond. Should have dyed his hair if he wanted to stay out of trouble.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 08:21 PM   #72
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
There's an inconsistency somewhere... it's a shame Cut-Throat's not here right now to help us clarify our thinking.
Not that I could ever match Cut-Throat for wisdom and flair, but since he's gone let me give it a shot...

The inconsistency here and in the thread you referred back to, Nords, is due to folks letting (wanting) tangential issues (gender, politics, sexual orientation, personal memories and experience, etc.) cloud the only real issue in the present circumstance.

That issue is INFORMED CONSENT.

It doesn't matter who is gay, who is Republican, who enjoyed it or who thinks (s)he might have enjoyed it when (s)he was younger. Doesn't matter who initiated it, who reported it, or who's trying to make political hay out of it.

Underaged individuals are mentally immature and unable to give informed consent. That's true whether they're engaging in sexual activity or signing a contract to buy a car. An adult who is sexually involved with them in any way is taking advantage of a power / knowledge imbalance for his / her own sexual gratification. Doesn't matter whether the minor really WANTED the car, or really WANTED to do his or her teacher / priest / congressman.

Period.





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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-04-2006, 08:30 PM   #73
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Caroline said it all.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 12:42 AM   #74
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Re: Hastert should resign?

donheff and Caroline:

I had written somewhat detailed responses to both of you. I reconsidered my post several times before hitting submit, and then I decided I would first PM Nords with my draft before submitting it, just to get someone else's feedback and be sure that I would avoid being disruptive. However, right before doing that, I decided that I wouldn't even go ahead with PMing Nords; I feel like my comment would have run a high risk of leading into an endless flamewar, and regardless of that it would have been generally orthogonal to the purpose of this forum, and on the whole it would have been just plain disruptive.

So, I've decided to spike my comment. In person I really enjoy getting into long, sometimes heated debates, but I just feel like it would accomplish too little here, and in the end cause too much annoyance to ourselves and to other posters. Maybe I'm being too cautious, and maybe I'll still get involved in other Internet WankeryTM on the ER forum (ok, undoubtedly I will) -- but I think this time I'll just bow out, and let my wicked repartee go unspoken. I apologize for getting started and then just leaving things off, but as I said I think I was veering too far into off-topic and flamefest territory, and I think it's best if this time I just avoid even the semblance of picking a fight. (Not that my post was intentionally caustic -- it wasn't -- just that it seemed like a minefield that would inevitably set something off.)

Once again, sorry for any disapointment. I hope you guys don't mind too much!
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 12:56 AM   #75
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Dood
donheff and Caroline:

I had written somewhat detailed responses to both of you. I reconsidered my post several times before hitting submit, and then I decided I would first PM Nords with my draft before submitting it, just to get someone else's feedback and be sure that I would avoid being disruptive. However, right before doing that, I decided that I wouldn't even go ahead with PMing Nords; I feel like my comment would have run a high risk of leading into an endless flamewar, and regardless of that it would have been generally orthogonal to the purpose of this forum, and on the whole it would have been just plain disruptive.

So, I've decided to spike my comment. In person I really enjoy getting into long, sometimes heated debates, but I just feel like it would accomplish too little here, and in the end cause too much annoyance to ourselves and to other posters. Maybe I'm being too cautious, and maybe I'll still get involved in other Internet WankeryTM on the ER forum (ok, undoubtedly I will) -- but I think this time I'll just bow out, and let my wicked repartee go unspoken. I apologize for getting started and then just leaving things off, but as I said I think I was veering too far into off-topic and flamefest territory, and I think it's best if this time I just avoid even the semblance of picking a fight. (Not that my post was intentionally caustic -- it wasn't -- just that it seemed like a minefield that would inevitably set something off.)

Once again, sorry for any disapointment. I hope you guys don't mind too much!
Hey cooldood, You better develop a thicker skin than that if you hope to contribute to this board. This is a group of meanies.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 02:37 AM   #76
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Re: Hastert should resign?

....This really isn't a fair discussion. For the first time in your lives you liberals get to defend the moral high ground and you are not very good at it. This thread has mostly been a bunch of political yammering. If you were really serious about protecting children you would want to do whatever it takes to fully protect them. As long as you let pedophiles live in our society they are going to molest children. Liberals seem more interested in making political advantage of the current political situation than protecting children. If Hastert were to resign tomorrow you would quickly forget about protecting children from molestation and revert to your longstanding policy of making your political tent so large that it protects everyone including the pedophiles.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 06:54 AM   #77
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclarksnakes
....This really isn't a fair discussion. For the first time in your lives you liberals get to defend the moral high ground and you are not very good at it. This thread has mostly been a bunch of political yammering. If you were really serious about protecting children you would want to do whatever it takes to fully protect them. As long as you let pedophiles live in our society they are going to molest children. Liberals seem more interested in making political advantage of the current political situation than protecting children. If Hastert were to resign tomorrow you would quickly forget about protecting children from molestation and revert to your longstanding policy of making your political tent so large that it protects everyone including the pedophiles.
jc
This is possibly the most bizarre political rant I have seen on this site (so far). So what is your solution? Kill all the pedophiles, since "libruls" want to "let pedophiles live in our society?"

Oh yeah, and don't tell me about liberals not protecting kids from pedophiles when the grand Repugnant poo-bah of child protection measures in the House was running around after underage males while his superiors in the House apparently covered up his activities. Pedophiles in glass houses, and all that.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 07:22 AM   #78
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Re: Hastert should resign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Dood
donheff and Caroline:

So, I've decided to spike my comment. In person I really enjoy getting into long, sometimes heated debates, but I just feel like it would accomplish too little here, and in the end cause too much annoyance to ourselves and to other posters.
Dood: I come from a family that loves to "fight." Our dinner table conversations would wake the dead. It scared a few potential SOs off early. Those who stayed discovered that we love each other and love to argue. Going home for Sunday dinners with my family was something I looked forward to every week.

So, don't hesitate to argue. Just avoid ad hominem attacks. By the way, I didn't see the post I responded to as personal attack. Just wrong headed
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 07:30 AM   #79
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Re: Hastert should resign?

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Originally Posted by jclarksnakes
....This really isn't a fair discussion. For the first time in your lives you liberals get to defend the moral high ground
It is fun to defend the moral high ground but that is certainly not rare lately. Think torture, invasions of privacy, lying to the public, creating a massive terrorist recruiting program - AKA the Iraq War, and "denial" in general.

Quote:
If you were really serious about protecting children you would want to do whatever it takes to fully protect them. As long as you let pedophiles live in our society they are going to molest children. Liberals seem more interested in making political advantage of the current political situation than protecting children.
Brewer is right -- this is just plain bizarre. Seriously, quote something a liberal said on this thread that would indicate that the above makes any sense at all.
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Re: Hastert should resign?
Old 10-05-2006, 08:09 AM   #80
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Re: Hastert should resign?

If the republican's were smart, they would force convince any of their members that had any connection with covering this up to retire.

The American public has an incredibly short attention span. If the resignations took place immediately it would all blow over in 2-3 weeks. The more they drag it out the more this issue will play a role in the elections.
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