Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-18-2008, 04:45 PM   #61
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
[quote=dclewis;685880]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post

Life insurance companies don't "raid" cash values, they can't. It's not like a pension fund. The money is being held for the benefit of a 3rd party (the beneficiary). As the policyowner, you outrank everyone else in connection with that policy.

There wouldn't be a reason for them to not give you the cash value unless the surrender charges prevented you from having a positive balance, there was fraud on your part in connection with setting up the policy, or you borrowed all of the available funds from your policy.

Comdex scores give a good idea of how a company has behaved in the past. If you are good at valuing a company (a reason to study value investing, not just index investing), you have a better opportunity to see what lies ahead.

I'm not blaming you for what happened, but you are making unfair sweeping generalizations about ALL insurance companies that simply aren't true. I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience with a life insurance company. Not sure what the exact blow-by blow details are though...you stated earlier:

"After several missed payments (I was in the midst of a divorce, commuting between the US and Europe on business, and wasn't paying close enough attention to what I thought was automated banking- and I never received an overdue premium notice from them...) they declared the policy in default and informed me that I had forfeited the "guaranteed cash value" and the insurance coverage"

Not paying premiums on the whole life should trigger a red flag. Several missed payments - they are going to assume you are surrendering the contract. They can't refuse premium payments as life insurance is a unilateral contract and governed by the principle of "utmost good faith". Did you contact the insurance company? Your State Insurance Commissioner? Generally, if you had net cash value available, it should be yours when you surrender it.
OK, you seem to be enjoying those adult beverages too much, so I will go slower:

1. The policy was set up with AUTOMATIC WITHDRAWAL from my checking. They deliberately quit taking the payments, not the other way around. They never sent an overdue premium notice. The first correspondance I received from them was the notice informing me the policy had lapsed and would not be reinstated, have a nice day.
2. Conseco bought Lamar- I had no say in the matter, so checking their Comdex scores in advance wouldn't mean jack.
3. Of course I contacted the Insurance company- re-read my post and you will notice I mentioned how concerned and helpful their customer service staff was. I called them several times, and then followed up in writing. My "Estate and Financial Planning Specialist" (herinafter referred to as Peter Leech) contacted them on my (his) behalf -they stonewalled him, too.
4. After a couple of months of dealing with this as a sideline issue, (remember that pesky divorce I mentioned) I wrote it off as a good financial lesson, and vowed to never again get involved with
a. "Estate and Financial Planning Specialists"
b. Any life insurance product with a descriptive prefix.

Using the terms "utmost good faith" and. "Insurance Company" in the same sentence is, I believe, outlawed in most states. (notice I was careful to separate them...)

I believe there probably are probably honest, competent hardworking financial planners out there- but the shysters who are lining their own pockets at the expense of their clients by pushing questionable products give the financial planning sector a bad name.
__________________

__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-18-2008, 04:59 PM   #62
Full time employment: Posting here.
ProspectiveBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
We'll grind your bones to make our bread.
Man, I'm still laughing...
__________________

__________________
ProspectiveBum is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:00 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
ROFLMAO..... He will not get this, but it is funny.... thanks CFB...
As usual, no extra charge.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:15 PM   #64
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
We'll grind your bones to make our bread.
It's so cute when you talk like that...
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:28 PM   #65
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 16
[quote=bigwonderfulwyoming;685903]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclewis View Post

OK, you seem to be enjoying those adult beverages too much, so I will go slower:

1. The policy was set up with AUTOMATIC WITHDRAWAL from my checking. They deliberately quit taking the payments, not the other way around. They never sent an overdue premium notice. The first correspondance I received from them was the notice informing me the policy had lapsed and would not be reinstated, have a nice day.
2. Conseco bought Lamar- I had no say in the matter, so checking their Comdex scores in advance wouldn't mean jack.
3. Of course I contacted the Insurance company- re-read my post and you will notice I mentioned how concerned and helpful their customer service staff was. I called them several times, and then followed up in writing. My "Estate and Financial Planning Specialist" (herinafter referred to as Peter Leech) contacted them on my (his) behalf -they stonewalled him, too.
4. After a couple of months of dealing with this as a sideline issue, (remember that pesky divorce I mentioned) I wrote it off as a good financial lesson, and vowed to never again get involved with
a. "Estate and Financial Planning Specialists"
b. Any life insurance product with a descriptive prefix.

Using the terms "utmost good faith" and. "Insurance Company" in the same sentence is, I believe, outlawed in most states. (notice I was careful to separate them...)

I believe there probably are probably honest, competent hardworking financial planners out there- but the shysters who are lining their own pockets at the expense of their clients by pushing questionable products give the financial planning sector a bad name.

I know you're smart enough to understand the phrase "ad hominem".

Anyway, did you contact the insurance commissioner?
__________________
dclewis is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:32 PM   #66
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Please refrain from personal attacks in this thread. It is getting out of hand. Everyone take a deep breath, savor the subtleties of infinite banking, and come back when you're in a better mood.

Thanks.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:39 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclewis View Post

haha...no. Very cynical by the way.
Yeah, I've found that the best way to hang on to my life savings is to be cynical. I'm funny that way.

Quote:
So far it seems to be working quite well. Since 2000, our top tier stocks (which are diversified across different sectors) have averaged a little over 11% without figuring in dividends.
Ok, this sounds interesting. Do you have a graph of the performance of a straight buy/sell on these recommendations that you could share? One thing I've found is that many of these 'we beat the market' claims ignore volatility. But 2000 to present includes up and down times, so this could be enlightening.

Quote:
The problem with mutual funds is, well...among other things government regulation. The "5% rule",...
Assuming the 5% rule is don't have any > 5% of assets in any one stock, that would concern me a bit. Even if your algorithm is excellent, it can't foretell everything. 5% rule avoids a catastrophe from any one stock.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 07-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 07:41 PM   #69
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Ok, this sounds interesting. Do you have a graph of the performance of a straight buy/sell on these recommendations that you could share? One thing I've found is that many of these 'we beat the market' claims ignore volatility. But 2000 to present includes up and down times, so this could be enlightening.
Sorry no. As someone else here said, I am not here to educate, or enlighten. I also am not here to sell anything. The "top tier" was never meant to be a list of recommended stocks. And...the software doesn't recommend anything. It's simply an informational aid. The individual picks the stock based on available information. It was just a running total of stocks that were picked to see if the software worked. When stocks became overvalued, they were sold and replaced by undervalued stocks (if we could find them). Hey folks, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Honestly, I thought people had questions about the IBC. I didn't know this was just a mosh pit to bash new-comers. Really, I'm sorry for "invading".
__________________
dclewis is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 07:45 PM   #70
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
I didn't know this was just a mosh pit to bash new-comers. Really, I'm sorry for "invading". Bye.
You don't tug on Superman's cape...
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 08:06 PM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
You don't tug on Superman's cape...

Made me listen to it. Thanks for the reminder

__________________
Notmuchlonger is offline  
Old 07-18-2008, 09:09 PM   #72
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
And I couldn't think of a nicer time to deem this thread closed. Good night to all.
__________________

__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I heard 5 people get shot last weekend Keim Other topics 4 05-21-2007 05:46 PM
$5000 For Hearing Aids???...I heard that! BUM Health and Early Retirement 26 05-15-2007 08:06 AM
Tell Me If You've Heard This One... TromboneAl Other topics 11 12-05-2005 09:20 AM
The Three Level Concept JWR1945 FIRE and Money 23 09-13-2004 06:06 PM
Heard an Interesting Interview on SS today........ Cut-Throat FIRE and Money 36 09-09-2004 11:07 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:09 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.