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Old 07-18-2008, 03:45 PM   #61
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[quote=dclewis;685880]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming View Post

Life insurance companies don't "raid" cash values, they can't. It's not like a pension fund. The money is being held for the benefit of a 3rd party (the beneficiary). As the policyowner, you outrank everyone else in connection with that policy.

There wouldn't be a reason for them to not give you the cash value unless the surrender charges prevented you from having a positive balance, there was fraud on your part in connection with setting up the policy, or you borrowed all of the available funds from your policy.

Comdex scores give a good idea of how a company has behaved in the past. If you are good at valuing a company (a reason to study value investing, not just index investing), you have a better opportunity to see what lies ahead.

I'm not blaming you for what happened, but you are making unfair sweeping generalizations about ALL insurance companies that simply aren't true. I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience with a life insurance company. Not sure what the exact blow-by blow details are though...you stated earlier:

"After several missed payments (I was in the midst of a divorce, commuting between the US and Europe on business, and wasn't paying close enough attention to what I thought was automated banking- and I never received an overdue premium notice from them...) they declared the policy in default and informed me that I had forfeited the "guaranteed cash value" and the insurance coverage"

Not paying premiums on the whole life should trigger a red flag. Several missed payments - they are going to assume you are surrendering the contract. They can't refuse premium payments as life insurance is a unilateral contract and governed by the principle of "utmost good faith". Did you contact the insurance company? Your State Insurance Commissioner? Generally, if you had net cash value available, it should be yours when you surrender it.
OK, you seem to be enjoying those adult beverages too much, so I will go slower:

1. The policy was set up with AUTOMATIC WITHDRAWAL from my checking. They deliberately quit taking the payments, not the other way around. They never sent an overdue premium notice. The first correspondance I received from them was the notice informing me the policy had lapsed and would not be reinstated, have a nice day.
2. Conseco bought Lamar- I had no say in the matter, so checking their Comdex scores in advance wouldn't mean jack.
3. Of course I contacted the Insurance company- re-read my post and you will notice I mentioned how concerned and helpful their customer service staff was. I called them several times, and then followed up in writing. My "Estate and Financial Planning Specialist" (herinafter referred to as Peter Leech) contacted them on my (his) behalf -they stonewalled him, too.
4. After a couple of months of dealing with this as a sideline issue, (remember that pesky divorce I mentioned) I wrote it off as a good financial lesson, and vowed to never again get involved with
a. "Estate and Financial Planning Specialists"
b. Any life insurance product with a descriptive prefix.

Using the terms "utmost good faith" and. "Insurance Company" in the same sentence is, I believe, outlawed in most states. (notice I was careful to separate them...)

I believe there probably are probably honest, competent hardworking financial planners out there- but the shysters who are lining their own pockets at the expense of their clients by pushing questionable products give the financial planning sector a bad name.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:59 PM   #62
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:00 PM   #63
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ROFLMAO..... He will not get this, but it is funny.... thanks CFB...
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:15 PM   #64
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It's so cute when you talk like that...
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:28 PM   #65
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[quote=bigwonderfulwyoming;685903]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclewis View Post

OK, you seem to be enjoying those adult beverages too much, so I will go slower:

1. The policy was set up with AUTOMATIC WITHDRAWAL from my checking. They deliberately quit taking the payments, not the other way around. They never sent an overdue premium notice. The first correspondance I received from them was the notice informing me the policy had lapsed and would not be reinstated, have a nice day.
2. Conseco bought Lamar- I had no say in the matter, so checking their Comdex scores in advance wouldn't mean jack.
3. Of course I contacted the Insurance company- re-read my post and you will notice I mentioned how concerned and helpful their customer service staff was. I called them several times, and then followed up in writing. My "Estate and Financial Planning Specialist" (herinafter referred to as Peter Leech) contacted them on my (his) behalf -they stonewalled him, too.
4. After a couple of months of dealing with this as a sideline issue, (remember that pesky divorce I mentioned) I wrote it off as a good financial lesson, and vowed to never again get involved with
a. "Estate and Financial Planning Specialists"
b. Any life insurance product with a descriptive prefix.

Using the terms "utmost good faith" and. "Insurance Company" in the same sentence is, I believe, outlawed in most states. (notice I was careful to separate them...)

I believe there probably are probably honest, competent hardworking financial planners out there- but the shysters who are lining their own pockets at the expense of their clients by pushing questionable products give the financial planning sector a bad name.

I know you're smart enough to understand the phrase "ad hominem".

Anyway, did you contact the insurance commissioner?
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:32 PM   #66
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Please refrain from personal attacks in this thread. It is getting out of hand. Everyone take a deep breath, savor the subtleties of infinite banking, and come back when you're in a better mood.

Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:39 PM   #67
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haha...no. Very cynical by the way.
Yeah, I've found that the best way to hang on to my life savings is to be cynical. I'm funny that way.

Quote:
So far it seems to be working quite well. Since 2000, our top tier stocks (which are diversified across different sectors) have averaged a little over 11% without figuring in dividends.
Ok, this sounds interesting. Do you have a graph of the performance of a straight buy/sell on these recommendations that you could share? One thing I've found is that many of these 'we beat the market' claims ignore volatility. But 2000 to present includes up and down times, so this could be enlightening.

Quote:
The problem with mutual funds is, well...among other things government regulation. The "5% rule",...
Assuming the 5% rule is don't have any > 5% of assets in any one stock, that would concern me a bit. Even if your algorithm is excellent, it can't foretell everything. 5% rule avoids a catastrophe from any one stock.


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Old 07-18-2008, 04:47 PM   #68
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:41 PM   #69
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Ok, this sounds interesting. Do you have a graph of the performance of a straight buy/sell on these recommendations that you could share? One thing I've found is that many of these 'we beat the market' claims ignore volatility. But 2000 to present includes up and down times, so this could be enlightening.
Sorry no. As someone else here said, I am not here to educate, or enlighten. I also am not here to sell anything. The "top tier" was never meant to be a list of recommended stocks. And...the software doesn't recommend anything. It's simply an informational aid. The individual picks the stock based on available information. It was just a running total of stocks that were picked to see if the software worked. When stocks became overvalued, they were sold and replaced by undervalued stocks (if we could find them). Hey folks, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Honestly, I thought people had questions about the IBC. I didn't know this was just a mosh pit to bash new-comers. Really, I'm sorry for "invading".
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:45 PM   #70
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I didn't know this was just a mosh pit to bash new-comers. Really, I'm sorry for "invading". Bye.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:06 PM   #71
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Made me listen to it. Thanks for the reminder

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Old 07-18-2008, 08:09 PM   #72
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And I couldn't think of a nicer time to deem this thread closed. Good night to all.
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