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Old 01-12-2008, 11:23 AM   #61
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They have just what you mentioned online at Christianbooks. Genuine leather, gold-gilt edges, thumb indexed, etc., for $36.99.

I've done a lot of business with them over the last 25 years or so, and have always been quite satisfied. I've also been to their store on 43rd St. in NYC...WOW!!! The place is HUGE...and packed wall-to-wall! Amazing!
Decided that the giant print was too big, and picked one with slightly smaller print. My near-compulsive LBYM'ing kicked in when I saw that "bonded leather" cover instead of genuine leather would bring the price down to $17.99. Suddenly, I wondered if I would even know the difference, so I ordered the cheaper bonded leather version: KJV Cornerstone Ultra Thin Reference Bible, Bonded leather, Black, Thumb-indexed - - Christianbook.com

Thanks again, Goonie! That place has a MILLION Bibles.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bigritchie View Post
I do not think many people realize that you can go visit the resting place of the Ark, and see the actual boat near MT. Ararat, and that Turkey has a tourist center there even.

You can also see where Israel crossed the red Sea, scuba dive where almost 2 miles of coralized chariots lay on the sea bed, and then as you go further into Arabia (Mt. Sinai is not on the Sinai peninsula, it is in Arabia like the Bible says) you can see the Rock of Horeb which Moses struck and brought forth water, you can see the massive erosion this caused on the rocks, the 40 foot stone split in 1/2. You can also see Mt. Sinai which has Elijah's cave, and has melted granite on top, with the entire thing burned black. At the bottom the Altar where they built the golden calf still exist, and the markers in the area are just like the Bible says.
I do not think many people realize that sometimes the locals play tricks on tourists:

Jackalope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, no offense intended, but I really do not think that there is any evidence to your claims.

Check here for some of the hoaxes surrounding the ark -

Searches for Noah's Ark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
In 1993 CBS aired a highly sensationalized special entitled "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark,", which contained a long section devoted to the claims of George Jammal, who showed what he called "sacred wood from the ark". .... later revealed that his "sacred wood" was wood taken from railroad tracks in Long Beach, California, and hardened by cooking with various sauces in an oven.
Why all these fakes, if the 'actual boat' can be seen? Does not add up, Bigritchie.

Also,...
Quote:
the Ark was approximately 450 feet (137 m)long. This is considerably longer than the schooner Wyoming, launched in 1909 and the longest documented wooden-hulled vessel ever built: it measured only 329.5 feet (100 m) and needed iron cross-bracing to counter warping and a steam pump to handle a serious leak problem.

... in 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
So, we are to believe that Noah built a seaworthy ship larger than anything that could be built in modern times? Color me skeptical.

-ERD50
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:39 AM   #63
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Is there a Cliffs Notes for the bible?
Seems there is

Amazon.com: The Bible (Cliffs Notes): Books: Charles H. Patterson
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:53 AM   #64
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My near-compulsive LBYM'ing kicked in when I saw that "bonded leather" cover instead of genuine leather would bring the price down to $17.99. Suddenly, I wondered if I would even know the difference, so I ordered the cheaper bonded leather version: KJV Cornerstone Ultra Thin Reference Bible, Bonded leather, Black, Thumb-indexed - - Christianbook.com...
Actually, many times the 'bonded' leather is nicer because it has less flaws in it than the 'genuine' leather does. Simply because the with the 'genuine' leather, they just take a slab of leather and use it 'as is'. With the 'bonded' leather, they can remove and work around the flaws. Also, I've noticed that the 'bonded' leather usually tends to be softer and more supple than the 'genuine'.

Happy reading!
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:09 PM   #65
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I do not think many people realize that sometimes the locals play tricks on tourists:

Jackalope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, no offense intended, but I really do not think that there is any evidence to your claims.

Check here for some of the hoaxes surrounding the ark -

Searches for Noah's Ark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why all these fakes, if the 'actual boat' can be seen? Does not add up, Bigritchie.

Also,...
So, we are to believe that Noah built a seaworthy ship larger than anything that could be built in modern times? Color me skeptical.

-ERD50
Been there myself and saw it with my own eyes. Just because some guy hoaxes finding the Ark doesn't mean it isn't real. And if it is real, I don't think I would need to explain why there would be a cover up.

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Old 01-12-2008, 01:08 PM   #66
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Been there myself and saw it with my own eyes.
Well, you saw something that you choose to believe is the remains of Noah's ark.

That's fine - believe what you wish, but the religious scholars do not agree. So, unless you can provide some sound scholarly support for that picture being the Ark itself, I think you should preface your comments with 'I believe'...

-ERD50
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:27 PM   #67
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:37 PM   #68
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Well, you saw something that you choose to believe is the remains of Noah's ark.

That's fine - believe what you wish, but the religious scholars do not agree. So, unless you can provide some sound scholarly support for that picture being the Ark itself, I think you should preface your comments with 'I believe'...

-ERD50
You know, I started to post all the proof, all the studies, all the military records, that show without a doubt this a the remains of a boat the exact dimensions of the ark, but this is something that some people will believe and some will not no matter how much evidence there is. I would recommend people search for the truth with a open mind.
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:44 PM   #69
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You know, I started to post all the proof, all the studies, all the military records, that show without a doubt this a the remains of a boat the exact dimensions of the ark, but this is something that some people will believe and some will not no matter how much evidence there is. I would recommend people search for the truth with a open mind.
No need to go through all that trouble. I'm not enough of an expert to be able to examine that info and determine the validity of it anyhow.

Just post some links to serious, credible religious history scholars who believe that what you saw is the actual remains of the ark. I'm not even asking for a consensus - just some reasonable number of credible sources who take that item seriously.


edit/add - by 'credible' I don't mean 'anyone with a blog/site' - I mean real university scholars.
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:40 PM   #70
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Well, you saw something that you choose to believe is the remains of Noah's ark.

That's fine - believe what you wish, but the religious scholars do not agree. So, unless you can provide some sound scholarly support for that picture being the Ark itself, I think you should preface your comments with 'I believe'...

-ERD50
Your multitude of responses in some of these "religious" threads seems to be putting a lot of effort into "not believing" something. You previously indicated all signs pointed to your being an atheist. But your efforts, in my opinion, bely that. They seem, again in my opinion, to point to being an agnostic, still wondering "could it be true"?
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:10 PM   #71
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Your multitude of responses in some of these "religious" threads seems to be putting a lot of effort into "not believing" something. You previously indicated all signs pointed to your being an atheist. But your efforts, in my opinion, bely that. They seem, again in my opinion, to point to being an agnostic, still wondering "could it be true"?
Nah, I think you are reading too much into it.

First, by definition an agnostic is still wondering - open to all explanations. Only an atheist dis-believes in a supreme being.

Oh, here's my earlier comment to you on the subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert
So, now I wonder, which do you call yourself----agnostic--atheist--or religious?
Quote:
Well, I have had people ask me if I live a 'spiritual life'. I say that I try, but my definition of 'spiritual' is probably different than yours.

Since I think any of those three labels can 'work' for people, I don't really care much which is used. In that regard, I guess I'm pretty agonistic about the subject

If you really had to pin me down, I'd be most comfortable with agnostic. But my Magic-8 ball says 'all signs point to atheist'.

-ERD50
Second, if you were to look at other posts, I may chime in anytime someone says ' xxxx makes yyyy true ' if I don't think that xxxx supports a yyyy conclusion. It might be financial, environmental, political, technical, health related - anything that strikes my fancy.

-ERD50
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:11 PM   #72
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I do not think many people realize that you can go visit the resting place of the Ark, and see the actual boat near MT. Ararat, and that Turkey has a tourist center there even.

You can also see where Israel crossed the red Sea, scuba dive where almost 2 miles of coralized chariots lay on the sea bed, and then as you go further into Arabia (Mt. Sinai is not on the Sinai peninsula, it is in Arabia like the Bible says) you can see the Rock of Horeb which Moses struck and brought forth water, you can see the massive erosion this caused on the rocks, the 40 foot stone split in 1/2. You can also see Mt. Sinai which has Elijah's cave, and has melted granite on top, with the entire thing burned black. At the bottom the Altar where they built the golden calf still exist, and the markers in the area are just like the Bible says.

That must have been a great trip !
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:45 PM   #73
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Your multitude of responses in some of these "religious" threads seems to be putting a lot of effort into "not believing" something. You previously indicated all signs pointed to your being an atheist. But your efforts, in my opinion, bely that. They seem, again in my opinion, to point to being an agnostic, still wondering "could it be true"?
If the "I think he protests too much" addage really did hold true, then a lot of Fundy Christians would actually be athiests (or worse) and a lot of Right to Life supporters abortion providers, etc.

This isn't the first time I've been asked this question, generally by people who believe that you have to read the Bible in order to be a well-rounded person. I'd tend to suggest that, if you truly wish to be well-rounded, you'd be well-advised to start with the Hindu Rig Veda or Buddhist Dhammapada, both of which are religious texts with a longer history and following than the Bible.

Can't say I've read those texts. I hope to read them someday, perhaps when I retire. Meantime they sit on the bookshelf next to the New American Standard Bible I was given by a girlfriend when I was in the 9th grade. We were both part of our church youth group back then, and I read my Bible almost cover-to-cover by the time I turned 18.
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:00 PM   #74
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Nah, I think you are reading too much into it.

First, by definition an agnostic is still wondering - open to all explanations. Only an atheist dis-believes in a supreme being.
OK, you are an agnostic. That certainly fits with your present posts in this thread. Makes sense. (But that earlier post of yours has you, as an agnostic, if you had to guess, "leaning" toward being an atheist.?)

Am I reading things correctly now?
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:56 PM   #75
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Answering the original question - Never read the bible cover to cover. I read my fill of it in catechism class.
My sis-in-law went to divinity school and read it in its original text, Aramaic and Ancient Greek and such. When asked about parts that contradict other parts, she says "The bible says lots of things".
If I were to read more, I'd like to read the books they chose NOT to include. I think that might be as informative as what "made the cut."
But there's so many things I want to read more that I'll probably never get to it.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:21 PM   #76
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Actually, many times the 'bonded' leather is nicer because it has less flaws in it than the 'genuine' leather does. Simply because the with the 'genuine' leather, they just take a slab of leather and use it 'as is'. With the 'bonded' leather, they can remove and work around the flaws. Also, I've noticed that the 'bonded' leather usually tends to be softer and more supple than the 'genuine'.

Happy reading!
Oh good!!! I am glad to read this. I had no idea what "bonded leather" really was (was afraid it might be cardboard ), but it sounds nice enough to suit me. Softer and more supple would be terrific.

I am really looking forward to reading and re-acquainting myself with the Bible.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:30 PM   #77
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As far as the "is it the ark or isn't it" discussion, this agnostic thinks that the significance of the Bible is deeply spiritual, and whether or not there actually was a big boat somewhere or not just isn't relevant.

I know there are some people out there who believe in the Bible literally, but personally I think that emphasis on the literal implies de-emphasis of the spiritual. So, perhaps the literalists "miss the boat", if not the ark.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:45 PM   #78
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Yes ...

... twice. But also, the World Book Encyclopedia twice, cover to cover, when I was in my late teens. Also Durant's history of civilization, once, all volumes.

Frankly, I liked the encyclopedia better than the bible.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:26 PM   #79
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Yes. I need to do a better job of reading it daily now.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:41 PM   #80
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As far as the "is it the ark or isn't it" discussion, this agnostic thinks that the significance of the Bible is deeply spiritual, and whether or not there actually was a big boat somewhere or not just isn't relevant.

I know there are some people out there who believe in the Bible literally, but personally I think that emphasis on the literal implies de-emphasis of the spiritual. So, perhaps the literalists "miss the boat", if not the ark.
I agree completely. One should be able to take away something by just reflecting on the messages, no need to take any of it literally. Or to even believe in God or Jesus or anything. Unless one wants to.

I've heard most of it in school, and again when I occasionally attend services with someone else. Personally, I don't get much out of it. For me, it pretty much boils down to 'Do unto others', and then use your brain to apply it to any situation you might find yourself in. A one page Bible would be my style.

I did read some of it a few years back - some of it is interesting from a historic POV (for me), but that was about it. Not interesting enough for me to invest the time. But that's just me.

-ERD50
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