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Old 06-13-2008, 11:23 AM   #21
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IMHO, those who are focused on "doing" and "having" value material things and also the status that comes from "doing" and the related goal of "achieving."
.
Back from paddling about on the lake, in a wooden kayak I built some years ago. Neat sunrise over the fog. A "doing" thing.

Me thinks "doing" is far away from "having". For several tens of years I was doing a lot of "doing" while at the same time "having" minimal material stuff.

The doing was traveling to work on volcanoes, research ships, getting to places that have names no one would recognize, spending time with truly oddball people from Phd types by the dozen, to fisherman, miners, drunkards, full timers in RVs, to name a few.

Splendid experiences. But for those who want stuff, that is also fine.
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Old 06-13-2008, 11:54 AM   #22
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[...]spending time with truly oddball people from Phd types by the dozen, to[...]
Hey ls99, I resemble that remark!

Edited to add - - After posting the above, I became curious about the source of the above saying, and Googled it. I found out that it goes back at least as far as Curly in The Three Stooges:
(Snooty Rich Lady): "Murphy, who are those slovenly creatures at the door?"

(Murphy the butler): "The plumbers, Madam."

(Snooty Rich Lady): "Well, send them to the servant's entrance. We can't allow rifraff in the front door."

(Curly): "I resemble that remark!"
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:30 PM   #23
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Sometimes the doing requires stuff. I bought a small boat powered by a 5 hp outboard. That's "stuff" that needs to be maintained and it does depreciate. The "doing" comes with a quiet time sitting in the shade of trees on the riverbank, throwing a line in the water and not really caring if a fish bites.

Or just cruise on up the river to see what's around the next bend.

The "being" is just being there, and not seeing a sign of civilization anywhere.

Or buy a radio control model airplane kit, build it, and learn to fly it. (In some ways it's harder than a full-size airplane. I've done both.) The satisfaction of a "perfect" Cuban 8 or some other maneuver. Or teaching someone else to fly one and sharing their elation at their first solo.
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Old 06-13-2008, 03:28 PM   #24
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Hey ls99, I resemble that remark!
Glad you think is funny.
Some samples: Seismologists, geologist, marine bio, paleomagnetics, submarine geologist, physicists etc

Story: Had a chief scientist (geology) from Norway. His motto: Me scientist, I do science. You worker, you work!
So my partner and I fixed him good. This is one of several "fixes" for him.

In the middle of the Indian ocean doing submarine profiling. Mr scientist left strict orders for the night watch; if sensors or instruments fail, you must wake me immediately so I can asses and decide.

No problem........we are here to please. Around 3 AM the precision depth recorder drive motor failed. We did not wake him, He would just have been underfoot, just fix the damn thing, proceeded to fix it. We were nearly done at 4 AM when he showed up in the lab. Ranting, I left strict orders, yada, yada, yada. It would take have taken 3 more minutes to bolt in and restart.

Instead, we said, hey ..... look all it needs now is for the heatsink compound to set between the motor and the mounting plate, we are tired. If you want to hold it in position and not allow it to move for 45 minutes, then it will be good to bolt in place, and re start. But if you allow it move at all, we have redo, and it will be at least 3 more hours and the motor may still fail, no other spares.

So he said OK I hold it. We placed him in a real awkward position, mind you this ship was rolling about 25 degrees port and starboard and pitching about 15.

So my partner and I went off to the galley for breakfest and coffee. Once belowdecks laughing our butts off.

About an hour later we made it back to the afterlab, Mr scientist sweating buckets, trembling from the exertion, and said: I did not let it move. And was mighty proud of himself.

We bolted the stepping motor back in, hit power on, and all was well with world, data was streaming in.

For those not into electronics: heatsink compound does NOT need to set. Just bolt things together, good to go.

Oh and if Mr scientist reads this. Oh well, remember you depend on the help.

Some day I'll explain about the special scientists' control panel.


Edit, Add: Now that's doing!
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:03 PM   #25
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while interdependence exists among being, having and doing, without being, there is no having or doing. so when being evolves, it is superior to having or doing. but when being is stagnant, having or doing are superior. the malnourished poor who neither do to have nor have to do starve being.

isolating from being & evaluating have and do:

the more you have, the more you can do. i have a house and a boat and friends and i keep us entertained.

the more you have the less you can do. i have 12 children and no time to take a walk or entertain my friends.

the less you have the less you can do. if you do not have legs, then you can not go for a walk.

the less you have the more you can do. i am unencumbered by things and so i am free to travel the world.

the more you can do the more you can have. i work a lot to have a lot of things.

the more you can do the less you can have. i work a lot but have no time to develop relationships.

the less you can do the less you can have. i am of low i.q. and unable to earn a good living to buy things.

the less you can do the more you can have. does anyone have an example for this?

so without being, there is no having or doing. and without doing there is no having. not having can starve your ability to do and not doing can starve you ability to be.
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:14 PM   #26
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Oywey,lazygood4nothinbum ,

I recall being fairly good in philosophy class. But, if I could sort all of that out, I'd fire Buddha, God and Yahweh.
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:17 PM   #27
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[quote=tangomonster;668826] I just do what feels comfortable and satisfying to me, which can be as mundane as reading, listening to music, relaxing, being with animals, etc.



Tango,
I am not sure how much use this observation is to you, but it seems to me that doing and being are not separate categories. You even use the word "do" to describe those activities which feel to you like just "being". Maybe a better way to think about your activities is to scale them by energy level, cost, and/or geographical distance from your home. Then it would just be having vs. doing. This dichotomy is, to me, a cleaner and simpler way to look at the subject. Of course, unless one is a monk or comatose, it is necessary to have a certain amount of material things, but I suspect that the great majority of the people on this forum place a higher priority on doing than having, generally. I certainly do. Playing chess or skydiving can both be rewarding. There is another expression besides "cop out" which you may not have heard in a while---"well rounded person".

As far as the "Bucket List" movie goes, I have not seen it but I have seen a trailer (what ever happened to "preview"?) and it seems as if the characters' list does consist of high adrenaline activities. I think my personal list would be less frenetic.

Another, perhaps useful, observation: Meditation is one of the lowest energy activities, but few practitioners use it to escape or retreat from an active life. It is, rather, usually used as a tool which enables them to be involved in life in a wide-awake, energetic and purposeful manner.

BTW, I agree that this thread and its two predecessors have been very enjoyable. Thank you three forum members for starting them.
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:55 PM   #28
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Here's what I'm doing these days...looking after two foster kittens that required bottle feeding for the first two weeks I had them. Now they are eating on their own. We call newly weaned kittens "weaners" in the rescue biz. BTW, the last four kittens I fostered are all adopted now

This week I also repainted some antique metal lawn chairs and our old wheelbarrow. I love doing things where I can observe an improvement - something old made shiny and new again and some abandoned kittens growing and thriving. My working life rarely gave me such satisfaction.

Never been too much into the having thing. But, for me, doing and being are often intertwined.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:21 PM   #29
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Here's what I'm doing these days...looking after two foster kittens that required bottle feeding for the first two weeks I had them. Now they are eating on their own. We call newly weaned kittens "weaners" in the rescue biz. BTW, the last four kittens I fostered are all adopted now

This week I also repainted some antique metal lawn chairs and our old wheelbarrow. I love doing things where I can observe an improvement - something old made shiny and new again and some abandoned kittens growing and thriving. My working life rarely gave me such satisfaction.

Never been too much into the having thing. But, for me, doing and being are often intertwined.
I do not want kittens.

I do not want kittens.

I do not want kittens.
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Old 06-14-2008, 02:03 AM   #30
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if I could sort all of that out
such dilemma: to elucidate or distill. out of nothing arises being and from being arises doing and having. sans doing & having, being is nothing. doing and having anchor being within existence. so doing and having require being (the superior) while to remain in existence being requires doing and having (the inferiors). slaves are required for the existence of the master.

nothing births being. being births doing & having. sans being, doing and having do not arise. without doing and having, being dies. doing births having but not having eliminates doing.

so you must be to do to have and you must have to do to be.
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:35 AM   #31
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so you must be to do to have and you must have to do to be.
The precursors to that conclusion do not seem to have necessary connections, good hypotheticals.

I live where the sound of one hand clapping is thunderous.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #32
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I vote for "Doing" - "Doing" is "Being" for me -

I tried just "Being" for awhile, but found I always get bored & eventually start "Doing".
"Being is doing" -- Rene Descartes
"Doing is Being" -- Jean Paul Sartre
"Do-be-do-be-do" -- Frank Sinatra
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:36 PM   #33
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The precursors to that conclusion do not seem to have necessary connections, good hypotheticals.
what a lovely sounding sentence. would you care to expand on its meaning?
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:50 PM   #34
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...

I just finished the book 'Harmonic Wealth' by James Ray and thought it might be of interest to the conversation. It deals with all five pillars of your life (financial, relational, mental, physical, and spiritual) and shows you how to create true wealth (as in well-being!) in your life. The very practical applications have made a big difference in my life – and could do the same for you.
*
Here’s the link: harmonicwealth.com/read

a James Ray fan
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:32 AM   #35
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what a lovely sounding sentence. would you care to expand on its meaning?
It is most tempting............. No.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:40 AM   #36
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It is most tempting............. No.
click. ignore. problem solved.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:05 PM   #37
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Thanks, everyone, for your comments (and the adorable photos, Purron---could those kittens be any cuter?!?). Here's what I have learned:

* People may change according to circumstance and time from an emphasis in one of the areas to another---and that's okay.
* People on this board don't emphasize the having, although there are some things that they do have/own/buy that give pleasure.
* There may be an overlap between the areas, such as needing to have some equipment to do some things or needing to do some things to be (I do believe there is some value in contemplating one's navel, but not 24/7).
* A balance is probably a good thing---like much else in life.

I did watch The Bucket List yesterday and did see that it was placing an emphasis on doing, such as high adrenaline physical activities and exotic sightseeing, but ultimately it was about male bonding/friendship/family, etc., so there was the being aspect as well....
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