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Old 05-28-2013, 08:18 PM   #21
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I see helicopter parents aa something different from tiger moms. Tiger moms push their children to extremes in order to succeed and this is not unique to Asians. In many places around the world where opportunities are limited and competition is fierce, education and success are the only way out. There is also the cultural factor in which a parent's worth is tied up in how well their children do and if your children do not do well, they bring shame on them. Tiger moms are strict indeed but that's different from being a helicopter parent. In fact, tiger moms expect their children to take responsibility for their lives and education but they stand ready with a big stick to enforce it.
+1 Agree
Helicopter parents IMO are more a result of privilege. Parents who are well off tend to do this more than the less wealthy who are too busy struggling with their life's challenges. Well intentioned, but can have adverse consequences
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:35 PM   #22
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A teacher has told me that she would rather her students have helicopter parents than the opposite.

I am not surprised. There was a time when the classroom and the school as a whole was the sole domain of the principal and teachers. Now the teachers cannot discipline and children no longer show much respect so they need the parents hovering over the school. Quite frankly, I think the parents need to get out of the schools and schools need to get back to what they used to do.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:35 PM   #23
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If you say so. Tomato, tomahto. The obsessed parents I've met have their self-worth tied to their children's success (i.e., not bringing shame on them). A teacher has told me that she would rather her students have helicopter parents than the opposite.
+1

It is so easy to be critical of parents and schools. Show me a school where parents are not involved and I'll show you classrooms full of failing students. Parents can be involved and their children can still learn to responsible.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:43 AM   #24
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Perhaps we never had much inclination to be helicopter parents, but we also had a very practical reason for our more hands-off approach. Our kids were born when we were already 37 to 42 (I realize that's not unheard of, but still it's getting pretty ancient in my opinion). We knew we wouldn't be around to bail the kids out of jams when they were still relatively young. We intentionally tried to foster independence and responsibility. It was difficult sometimes. It's hard to see your kid "hurt" from a mistake you know you could have prevented (or could fix). However, they rarely made such mistake a second time. Example: Once in a semester, we would return for a forgotten (Fill in the blank: back pack, lunch, homework assignment, etc.) Upon the second "offense" (our "problem" child) the teacher offered to let us go back for a forgotten assignment. We refused, which confounded the teacher to no end. We explained our system and asked said teacher to back us up. (There was no third offense that year).

Not saying we were good parents, but we were consistent and we never contradicted each other. A parenting approach with its share of pain, but our kids are now truly independent. Now we actually feel like we can "spoil" them a bit (e.g., funding Roth IRAs and providing down payment assistance on houses, etc.) Naturally, YMMV
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:28 AM   #25
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+1

It is so easy to be critical of parents and schools. Show me a school where parents are not involved and I'll show you classrooms full of failing students. Parents can be involved and their children can still learn to responsible.
The vast majority of schools around the world remain the domain of the educators. In America it's mostly bored affluent parents that are so involved. I believe it's lack of respect, discipline and respinsibility that cause schools to fail.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:16 AM   #26
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The vast majority of schools around the world remain the domain of the educators. In America it's mostly bored affluent parents that are so involved. I believe it's lack of respect, discipline and respinsibility that cause schools to fail.
Schools fail for many reasons, everywhere in the world. My limited personal experience with those that succeed points to a hard working partnership that includes educators, students and parents, both at school and at home. Affluence helps but is not a critical success factor.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:29 AM   #27
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More so than civilian parents. Military folks had more of a tendency to follow chain of command and didn't overreact as much. I had no problem with a parent who thinks there is a problem coming in to talk to me.....that's what should happen. Then if they don't get the answer/result they want.....then go to the Principal....then above that level. I saw all too many times with civilian parents (with lots of different teachers).....they would just go straight to the Superintendent without even bothering with the "lower" level people.....they had a complaint and they went to the biggest person they could find instead of trying to solve problems in the easiest method first. The biggest complainers and most obnoxious adults on any base I was on were the civilians....that comes from the people who were a LOT more knowledgeable about what goes on around the base . Being a teacher I was kind of a hermit.....the school becomes your own little world and I didn't really see all that many people outside the school. The last 7 years I worked on a base that we had to share the military gym (teaching PE/coaching). Gym staffed by local UK (non military) folks.....they always complained about the civilians being such a pain to work with.
I can see that. Of course, as a child of TWO public school teachers, you KNOW how they felt. When I got into trouble at school, after awhile they didn't even send me to the principal's office, they just called my mom at the school she was at and let her know what was going on. Case solved.........

I let my son's teachers know about my parents background and that I am a supporter of the teachers. They not only appreciate that but have gone out of their way to help my sons when then are issues. Like my mom always said: "Teachers care as much about your kid as the parents do"...........a lot of truth in that.........
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #28
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So true. I remember getting caught with some Colt 45 when then we were teenagers. We bought Colt 45 because it had a high alcohol content.

The cop confiscated the Colt 45, chastised us for drinking such shitty beer and let us go.
That right there is the problem. It's disgusting and shameful! If you would only have had helicopter parents from this generation, they could have instructed you in the art of fancy beer drinking. You could have been caught with some fancy microbrew that the proletariat cop hasn't even heard of. You possibly could have persuaded the officer that it was merely soda pop.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:56 AM   #29
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That right there is the problem. It's disgusting and shameful! If you would only have had helicopter parents from this generation, they could have instructed you in the art of fancy beer drinking. You could have been caught with some fancy microbrew that the proletariat cop hasn't even heard of. You possibly could have persuaded the officer that it was merely soda pop.
And they could have brought that "craft beer" in their helicopters!
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:57 AM   #30
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That right there is the problem. It's disgusting and shameful! If you would only have had helicopter parents from this generation, they could have instructed you in the art of fancy beer drinking. You could have been caught with some fancy microbrew that the proletariat cop hasn't even heard of. You possibly could have persuaded the officer that it was merely soda pop.
Circa 1970, the only microbrew any of us had ever heard of was "shine", though I guess that's technically a micro-distilled...
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:53 AM   #31
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I guess I fall somewhere in between helicopter parent and letting consequences fly. I've got a 10 year old and 12 year old.

- I'm a big believer in giving kids life skills (cooking, laundry, etc)... so the boys are responsible for some meal prep, clean up, etc. I believe in modified natural consequences (I remind them in the evening to make sure their backpacks are loaded up - but don't check them to make sure the assignments/permission slips/etc are in there). If they forget something - it's their problem to work out.

- I have been a bit aggressive about their schooling. When my older son was bored out of his mind and had crappy grades - I was emailing the teacher regularly about why he was failing, despite getting perfect scores on the benchmarks and standardized tests. I didn't ask her to change the grade - but she became aware that I felt the problem didn't lie entirely with my son... if she can't provide differentiation to bright, but bored students, she's not doing her job. I didn't try to make excuses for my son, just asked a lot of pointed questions about how she determined the grades. Turns out he was getting all the right answers on the tests - but doing the math problems in his own methods, not the method she was teaching. And he never learned the preferred method since he pre-tested out of the modules and had entirely different homework. I disagreed with this - but let the grades stand... and made a decision to get him OUT of that school environment. I worked to get my kids transferred to a program better able to handle exceptional bright kids (Yes - we're from Lake Wobegon, lol). He's now being given math and writing work that is several years ahead of his grade level, and thriving. So some helicopter parenting got him to a good school program that matched his abilities.

- Now we're entering middle school, and I did research and found a program that seems appropriate for my boys. (international baccalaureate program) He's horrified that I'm sending him to a school that none of his friends are going to. But I feel it is the best fit for him. So I guess that makes me a bit helicopter-esque. But I'm not trying to modify the teachers or schools - just aggressively pushing to get him in the right school/program for him. It's up to him to fail or thrive.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:08 AM   #32
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Circa 1970, the only microbrew any of us had ever heard of was "shine", though I guess that's technically a micro-distilled...
Or you tried a little wacko tobacco, and the peace officer wants to know where you got the beer.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:04 PM   #33
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I guess I fall somewhere in between helicopter parent and letting consequences fly. I've got a 10 year old and 12 year old.

- I'm a big believer in giving kids life skills (cooking, laundry, etc)... so the boys are responsible for some meal prep, clean up, etc. I believe in modified natural consequences (I remind them in the evening to make sure their backpacks are loaded up - but don't check them to make sure the assignments/permission slips/etc are in there). If they forget something - it's their problem to work out.

- I have been a bit aggressive about their schooling. When my older son was bored out of his mind and had crappy grades - I was emailing the teacher regularly about why he was failing, despite getting perfect scores on the benchmarks and standardized tests. I didn't ask her to change the grade - but she became aware that I felt the problem didn't lie entirely with my son... if she can't provide differentiation to bright, but bored students, she's not doing her job. I didn't try to make excuses for my son, just asked a lot of pointed questions about how she determined the grades. Turns out he was getting all the right answers on the tests - but doing the math problems in his own methods, not the method she was teaching. And he never learned the preferred method since he pre-tested out of the modules and had entirely different homework. I disagreed with this - but let the grades stand... and made a decision to get him OUT of that school environment. I worked to get my kids transferred to a program better able to handle exceptional bright kids (Yes - we're from Lake Wobegon, lol). He's now being given math and writing work that is several years ahead of his grade level, and thriving. So some helicopter parenting got him to a good school program that matched his abilities.

- Now we're entering middle school, and I did research and found a program that seems appropriate for my boys. (international baccalaureate program) He's horrified that I'm sending him to a school that none of his friends are going to. But I feel it is the best fit for him. So I guess that makes me a bit helicopter-esque. But I'm not trying to modify the teachers or schools - just aggressively pushing to get him in the right school/program for him. It's up to him to fail or thrive.


LOL, this reminded me when I was in school... we would have a math test and I did all the work in my head and just wrote down the answer... I was correct almost all the time... the teacher would give me bad grades and say 'you need to show your work'.... I said 'I can't, I did it in my head'... never did get it resolved...
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:14 PM   #34
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I think math is unusual in that skills build on what you've already learned. I can understand that being able to intuitively solve problems at one stage might also need to be accompanied by demonstrating your ability to solve them "traditionally" so that you will be able to understand the next level. DS also solved things intuitively in high school and his math teachers often told us that if he would spend as much time showing his work as he did after the test arguing that he didn't need to show his work, they would all have been better off. Later on both his math and his arguing skills paid off for him .

Lucky kids whose parents know what it best for them and take care of it.

We stopped checking whether our kids had done their homework (never mind checking it ourselves to be sure it was right) or had everything they needed for the next day at school when they were in about fourth grade. One of our children is so hard on herself that we would gladly have delivered any missing things to her every day (although she never needed us to) rather than have her beat herself up for forgetting them. The other one (the intuitive math solver) seems to be very carefree but we were always surprised when his teachers told us he never ever missed turning in homework. He explained to them that if he didn't, he knew his mother would kill him.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #35
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I guess I fall somewhere in between helicopter parent and letting consequences fly. I've got a 10 year old and 12 year old.

- I'm a big believer in giving kids life skills (cooking, laundry, etc)... so the boys are responsible for some meal prep, clean up, etc. I believe in modified natural consequences (I remind them in the evening to make sure their backpacks are loaded up - but don't check them to make sure the assignments/permission slips/etc are in there). If they forget something - it's their problem to work out.

- I have been a bit aggressive about their schooling. When my older son was bored out of his mind and had crappy grades - I was emailing the teacher regularly about why he was failing, despite getting perfect scores on the benchmarks and standardized tests. I didn't ask her to change the grade - but she became aware that I felt the problem didn't lie entirely with my son... if she can't provide differentiation to bright, but bored students, she's not doing her job. I didn't try to make excuses for my son, just asked a lot of pointed questions about how she determined the grades. Turns out he was getting all the right answers on the tests - but doing the math problems in his own methods, not the method she was teaching. And he never learned the preferred method since he pre-tested out of the modules and had entirely different homework. I disagreed with this - but let the grades stand... and made a decision to get him OUT of that school environment. I worked to get my kids transferred to a program better able to handle exceptional bright kids (Yes - we're from Lake Wobegon, lol). He's now being given math and writing work that is several years ahead of his grade level, and thriving. So some helicopter parenting got him to a good school program that matched his abilities.

- Now we're entering middle school, and I did research and found a program that seems appropriate for my boys. (international baccalaureate program) He's horrified that I'm sending him to a school that none of his friends are going to. But I feel it is the best fit for him. So I guess that makes me a bit helicopter-esque. But I'm not trying to modify the teachers or schools - just aggressively pushing to get him in the right school/program for him. It's up to him to fail or thrive.
I wouldn't call that helicopter parenting, just engaged parenting. Good for you!
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:20 PM   #36
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DW is a 4th grade teacher. I'm surprised at how much things have changed since I was a kid, particularly with respect to the integration of kids with special needs into the classroom. I'm sure it is better for those kids with special needs, but it really takes a toll on the time she has for the rest of the kids, particularly the brighter kids. DW gets to class a couple of hours early, tutors one particularly challenged girl, stays a couple hours after class is out to prepare for the next day, then comes home and corrects papers and answers parents' emails (including the helicopters). Rinse and repeat. Not a job I'd want.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #37
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+1

It is so easy to be critical of parents and schools. Show me a school where parents are not involved and I'll show you classrooms full of failing students. Parents can be involved and their children can still learn to responsible.
+1 I think you hit the nail on the head here Michael. (OMG, another agreement! )

I muddled through the Chicago Public School system from K through HS. My folks, similar to most of the parents, were not very involved. There were few role models on which to base success. Our teachers were more concerned over the safety of their cars in the parking lot (with good reason) than in successfully delivering cirriculum. It wasn't a pretty picture.

I think the author of the article OP posted is writing about extreme situations. (Gee, a journalist reaching out to the fringes to find a topic to suck in readers and compensation!) I'd rather see parents more involved, on average, than less.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:27 PM   #38
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I guess I fall somewhere in between helicopter parent and letting consequences fly. I've got a 10 year old and 12 year old.

- I'm a big believer in giving kids life skills (cooking, laundry, etc)... so the boys are responsible for some meal prep, clean up, etc. I believe in modified natural consequences (I remind them in the evening to make sure their backpacks are loaded up - but don't check them to make sure the assignments/permission slips/etc are in there). If they forget something - it's their problem to work out.

- I have been a bit aggressive about their schooling. When my older son was bored out of his mind and had crappy grades - I was emailing the teacher regularly about why he was failing, despite getting perfect scores on the benchmarks and standardized tests. I didn't ask her to change the grade - but she became aware that I felt the problem didn't lie entirely with my son... if she can't provide differentiation to bright, but bored students, she's not doing her job. I didn't try to make excuses for my son, just asked a lot of pointed questions about how she determined the grades. Turns out he was getting all the right answers on the tests - but doing the math problems in his own methods, not the method she was teaching. And he never learned the preferred method since he pre-tested out of the modules and had entirely different homework. I disagreed with this - but let the grades stand... and made a decision to get him OUT of that school environment. I worked to get my kids transferred to a program better able to handle exceptional bright kids (Yes - we're from Lake Wobegon, lol). He's now being given math and writing work that is several years ahead of his grade level, and thriving. So some helicopter parenting got him to a good school program that matched his abilities.

- Now we're entering middle school, and I did research and found a program that seems appropriate for my boys. (international baccalaureate program) He's horrified that I'm sending him to a school that none of his friends are going to. But I feel it is the best fit for him. So I guess that makes me a bit helicopter-esque. But I'm not trying to modify the teachers or schools - just aggressively pushing to get him in the right school/program for him. It's up to him to fail or thrive.
I would need a little more info before I would declare my verdict...but yep, you seem fit into my definition of Helicopter parent.
1. email teacher? Yes, this is often the best way to get/send info back and forth. For something that was obviously as important as this was to you.....face to face. email is notoriously misinterpreted on people's meanings. Something that could be solved in just a few minutes face to face could take forever (and possibly never) to iron out. If you expect the teacher to take time for you and your kid.....take the time to get in for a face to face.
2. How many students were in the first teachers class compared to what you moved to? If the teacher has 20 or less kids.....then no excuse on the differentiated classwork. If they had 40.....whole different story and the teacher was likely just trying to survive. There is everything inbetween of course.....and the teacher could have just not been very good.
3. Yes, it does sound like you are trying to modify teacher/school behavior.
4. Quite often, part of the Math teachers required teaching methods make them have the kids prove they know how to do the math skills....in writing. Unless something has changed in the last couple of years........ Did you check with the teacher/principal?
5. Could just be a crappy teacher. I have seen plenty.....and I was slowly joining them towards the end of my career and was one of the reasons I took an early retirement. Just didn't have the ooomph like I used to have.

I had some years in the middle of my career where I was teaching 3 different preps, coaching 2-3 sports and was athletic director. All I did was go to school and go home and sleep. I had NO time for anything extra. This teacher "could" have been in the same situation (or not).....sometimes this stuff gets dumped on teachers. I did it willingly for a number of years.....but as I got older, time NOT working became more important
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:45 PM   #39
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DW is a 4th grade teacher. I'm surprised at how much things have changed since I was a kid, particularly with respect to the integration of kids with special needs into the classroom. I'm sure it is better for those kids with special needs, but it really takes a toll on the time she has for the rest of the kids, particularly the brighter kids. DW gets to class a couple of hours early, tutors one particularly challenged girl, stays a couple hours after class is out to prepare for the next day, then comes home and corrects papers and answers parents' emails (including the helicopters). Rinse and repeat. Not a job I'd want.

I am one of the parents that hated the 'mainstreaming' of special needs kids... I am not talking about someone who is a little slow, but real special needs...

My kids get the short end of the teacher's attention because of it... and overall our society suffers...
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:59 PM   #40
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I am one of the parents that hated the 'mainstreaming' of special needs kids... I am not talking about someone who is a little slow, but real special needs...

My kids get the short end of the teacher's attention because of it... and overall our society suffers...
I agree....but if you mentioned anything like this in a faculty meeting you risked death.....I at times had up to 8 SPED students in a class, several that had their own monitors with them, I was the only one who didn't throw a hissy fit....so I got them and damn with the majority. Same with my comments about the push for everybody to go to University....... No plans for anybody who didn't want to go to University.......had to duck the death stares.....
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