Help with Military Fast-Plane Question

[TromboneAl]

I'm working on a subplot for my book.

Here's the scenario: Present day. An EMP-like phenomenon has wiped out all electronics from the east coast to Nevada. California is OK.

The military in CA needs to get a message to DC ASAP, and can't do it via radio (duh), so they want to send the fastest plane from CA to DC. Which option do you like best?

Option 1: The SR-71 has been retired, but they find one (from mothballs) and send it.

Option 2: Lookheed has a secret SR-72 prototype, and they send it, although it has major bugs.

Option 3: Those other options are too ridiculous, just send a B1 bomber.

I want the mission to have some major problems, such as a fuel problem. Consider this: all the GPS satellites are out of commission, and the plane would arrive in DC when it's dark. No lights on the ground.

So, how would the pilot navigate in that situation? Would it be possible? Perhaps dead reckoning from the last known visual landmark? Finding a dark airport impossible? Remember that all electronics on the ground are kaput.

Finally, what are some typical kinds of military SNAFUs that could threaten a mission like that?

Thanks for the help,

Al

 

[retirein15]

Look up project Aurora.

 

[REWahoo]

Finding a dark airport impossible? Remember that all electronics on the ground are kaput.

What's the weather and phase of the moon? Cloud cover? Low ceiling? Fog? Snow and ice?

 

[bjorn2bwild]

How did the electronics on these high tech aircraft survive the EMP?
Is it possible to generate a morse code signal through the existing transmission lines?
Oops, I see Ca is OK.
PS - the message could be dropped from the plane into the center of the Pentagon. No need to land the plane.

 

[samclem]

If all NAVAIDS, satellites, and electronics are really down, it might be smart to send a plane with a sextant port and a navigator who still knows how to use a sextant, or a ground mapping radar and a crew proficient enough to use it, or an INS that is very good. The plane would also need its own weather radar and would need a crew trained to land on a blacked-out runway. Bomber crews could do the nav and weather avoidance autonomously, but I don't know if the blacked out landing would be an easily found skill among that set. A special-ops C-17 crew with NVGs could do all of it under the right conditions, and also take some encrypted HF radios (is the ionosphere still there?) and gensets to leave behind on the east coast to help re-establish comms. But, not really speedy. (approx Mach 0.75). Here's a page from someone who may or may not know what they are talking about.

Going with anything really exotic (a prototype, something out of mothballs, etc) is gonna have a major hokey factor. Assuming this is a no-fail mission, you want a plan that uses standard equipment and standard training. Having CA still in play opens some interesting possibilities. The USAF Test Pilot School at Edwards AFB keeps some interesting planes around to fly, so you have the option of using some oddball aircraft, but I think something as "routine" as possible is far more realistic.


Obviously, you are in a very esoteric area here. I'm fairly sure that the national command authority has specially EMP-hardened equipment that is kept unhooked from everything to be sure comms can always be set up.

 

[Rustic23]

F-22, and I believe most modern military AC are hardened against EMP. A pilot should be able to visual nav from CA to DC. I am not sure about range. Might have to find a place to refuel. But clearly one of the fastest around, i.e. supercruise supersonic without burner. Should be an F-22 or two at Edwards.

Added: quick search shows about 1,800 mil range with 800 km range in supercruise. So refuel, normal flight, no supercruise. The time to refuel would eat up any time gained by supercruise.

 

[FI by 2024]

Hate to throw a wrench in your story, but why would the GPS satellites be out of commission? They are hardened against these situations plus, due to their orbit, only a handful are overhead at any given time. The majority of the constellation would continue working.

Personally I agree with samclem - have a spec ops crew do this if you really need it to be a plane. I recommend an AC-130 or MC-130 crew, however. Spec Ops don't have dedicated C-17s. They aren't stationed in CA but you could certainly have them participating in an exercise in CA at the time of the EMP. Make sure they were on the ground though...if an aircraft is airborne in CA and an EMP affects NV, it might affect the aircraft. C-130 variants are known for experiencing problems so there's no stretch there.

 

[samclem]

It would be really good to be able to make it in one hop. Will the fuel trucks/hydrants enroute be operational? Start carts/AGE? Can you tell them you are coming, or will the plane be an unexpected drop-in? Every time you shut down, there's a chance all the systems won't come back up on restart.

Also, if the folks at the departure airfield can't talk to the folks at the distant end, they really won't know about the security situation. They can't know, for sure, where they'll actually land, and where they'll go next. So, the plane would carry its own security team to help keep the riff-raff away from the airplane.

 

[M Paquette]

Hams.

Some amateur radio operator is going to drag a BC-348/375, AN/ARC-8 or some such vacuum tube beast out of the basement, hook the dynamoter to a couple car batteries, and be on the air. This is the sort of radio used on the B-29 that dropped the "Little Boy" atomic bomb.

An EMP-like phenomena strong enough to damage that gear won't leave much in the way of people, either.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[samclem]

Hams.

Some amateur radio operator is going to drag a BC-348/375, AN/ARC-8 or some such vacuum tube beast out of the basement, hook the dynamoter to a couple car batteries, and be on the air.

Sounds much better.

Though, if T-Al's "EMP-like" disturbance is roiling the ionosphere on a continuous basis (e.g. like super sunspots), HF would also not work, right? I'm trying to guess what these intelligent aliens of his might be up to.

 

[ERD50]

Hams.

Some amateur radio operator is going to drag a BC-348/375, AN/ARC-8 or some such vacuum tube beast out of the basement, hook the dynamoter to a couple car batteries, and be on the air. This is the sort of radio used on the B-29 that dropped the "Little Boy" atomic bomb.

An EMP-like phenomena strong enough to damage that gear won't leave much in the way of people, either.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

+1 There are 'rad hardened' semiconductors, but AFAIK, there are no 'rad hardened' tubes - no point in it.

You could always call on this hero (or Jack Bauer):

-ERD50

 

[dtbach]

If all NAVAIDS, satellites, and electronics are really down, it might be smart to send a plane with a sextant port and a navigator who still knows how to use a sextant,

Even when I knew how to use a sextant, I was lucky if I got to within 50 miles of where I actually was. Doubt if it would be much use to find a runway in the dark LOL!!

 

[gromit]

Sounds much better.

Though, if T-Al's "EMP-like" disturbance is roiling the ionosphere on a continuous basis (e.g. like super sunspots), HF would also not work, right? I'm trying to guess what these intelligent aliens of his might be up to.

I think the aliens must've been influenced by some of those "Best Places to Retire" articles and decided to come check it out.

 

[samclem]

Even when I knew how to use a sextant, I was lucky if I got to within 50 miles of where I actually was. Doubt if it would be much use to find a runway in the dark LOL!!

You find the runway with the mapping radar. If the weather is bad, you could then use an airborne radar approach (ARA) to get through the clouds to the runway without any help from the ground. The sextant is for overwater use. I'm assuming we're not sure where this plane will be going next. The stars will always be there (or we've got bigger trouble).

Hams: If the EMP has destroyed the computers, then it might all be manual Morse, which could make for a good, fun detail.

 

[M Paquette]

Sounds much better.

Though, if T-Al's "EMP-like" disturbance is roiling the ionosphere on a continuous basis (e.g. like super sunspots), HF would also not work, right? I'm trying to guess what these intelligent aliens of his might be up to.

They could be pulling a 'reverse HAARP' sort of trick, using immense pulses of high frequency radio to both produce their EMP effect, and screw up radio communications, by, for example, ionizing the D layer of the ionosphere. That would absorb radio waves that would normally span the country or globe. Then the hams would have to resort to groundwave relays every 50-200 miles. (Hams used to do this. The big ham radio association is ARRL, the American Radio Relay League. 'Traffic nets' still meet daily on the air, just in case... EMP would knock most of the fancy solid state rigs off the air, leaving it to the Old Timers to resurrect their vacuum tube gear and eventually re-establish communications. There, Al. Have a subplot on me. ;-) )

 

[Greg V]

Just to add to the stack of ideas...inertial navigation systems are self-contained and most modern mission computers use the inertials as their basis for position which is then updated and refined by GPS or ground NAVAIDs. I concur with the point that the GPS satellites should still be OK, though the system can be degraded by localized jamming and interference. Smaller, fast aircraft would need to air refuel. Larger aircraft (C-17 comes to mind) could make the trip and get back out of the area by beginning with a full fuel load.

Combine highly accurate modern inertial nav units...GPS updated or not...with NVG qualified crewmembers and an appropriately equipped aircraft for blacked-out landings and the mission should work. Best of luck with your writing.

 

[TromboneAl]

Great ideas, I've got a lot to play with.

So a tube ham radio is totally immune to EMP?

It's EMP-Like, and it's caused by an extraterrestrial, so I can make it as effective or specific as I want ("Sci-Fiction as REW says).

I love the idea of getting some old sailor guy, "hanging out the window" of a supersonic jet trying to get a fix on a star. Then the clouds move in.

I figure that with all lights out, it will be just like being over the ocean.

Yes, no one knows that a plane is coming. The people in the blacked out area don't even know whether the entire planet or just a small area is affected. But maybe they will hear the plane going over and light some oil drums on the runway.

This will be a good scene--so much that can go wrong!

 

[LOL!]

I have hung out the window of an airborne B-17. The windspeed is such that one would need a helmet and/or goggles tightly fastened to their head in order to do anything that involved seeing something.

 

[Rustic23]

This is more than I ever wanted t know about EMP, but the last few pages are a good read of what life in the U.S. might be like.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/bugs_ch12.pdf

 

[TromboneAl]

So a tube ham radio is totally immune to EMP?

Perhaps it is not immune:

MYTH: Gear that uses vacuum tubes is EMP proof.
FACT: Sadly, no. There was vacuum tube equipment that was damaged in the 1962 tests.

http://www.thepreparednesspodcast.com/emp-myths/
http://www.thepreparednesspodcast.com/emp-myths/#sthash.IX3fDUt7.dpuf

 

[Lakewood90712]

The military has aircraft with inertial navigation , as do some airliners.

I'l throw in the best solution I have. FEDEX.

Fedex , DHL, UPS , etc., fly freight into some of the most remote places everyday, with little or no ground support , often on short notice. I think they have a lot of aircraft with I.N.S.

I wonder how long the military would take to muster something that could fly that distance without re-fueling. Even in this post 9-11 era, finding some assets that are ready to go on battle stations on short notice might not be as easy as the public thinks.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Rustic23]

OK,
Here is an idea, Global Hawk, or one of the other drones. They can be programmed to take off and land anywhere without human guidance. Put the message inside, write on the outside 'look here' and send it on it's way, might even put Please return.

 

[Koolau]

T-Al, it is possible to find a landing strip and land at night without electronic devices. It would require at least some light in most cases (moonlight is good) ground lights are better - especially for navigation. From a height of 25,000 feet or so, you can pick out major cities from a couple hundred miles, assuming the cloud cover cooperates. (In the day time, I once saw Chicago downtown - Hancock, Sears, etc. from 22,000 feet near Indianapolis.)

Using only a compass, airspeed indicator, and a clock, it is possible to get "close" if you know what you are doing. It wouldn't be pretty, though. Ground reference is needed for corrections along the way (some cloud cover is okay as long as visual reference is available from time to time.) This assumes a good, seasoned pilot who hasn't forgotten basic navigation because of all this new fangled GPS, etc. For a trip of this duration, the best flight path would be to use Great Circle navigation. Great-circle navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've never done such myself since my aircraft was good for maybe 300 miles and I just used dead reckoning (and a sectional map). I'm not sure Great Circle navigation can be done without at least a good calculator and lots of maps (figuring reference points along the way.) Again, ability to see the ground on occasion would be critical without any other reference. Except for a very dark night, you can see the ground at night.

Some folks have supposedly navigated with just the north star. (Over your left shoulder must mean you are going east.) Go east until you see the atlantic and look for gross features of the coast to decide whether to turn left (north) or right (south) to find another feature that can lead you to DC. With any light at all, you can see the appropriate coast structure (including seeing the Potomac). From there, navigate by sight to the airport. Again probably not possible in black on black conditions, but I've never seen such except for vast amounts of water (I wasn't the pilot, heh, heh.)

It's scary to land without runway lights, but I've done it. The aircraft will have a landing light which helps (but is not required). Again, SOME kind of light is needed. If you are seeing black on black, you will need something else. Dropping a few flares when you get to the landing strip might be sufficient.

Good luck with your project.

 

[ERD50]

...

So a tube ham radio is totally immune to EMP? ...

edit - ooops, didn't see your follow-up post. I'd be curious as to how much damage was done, and under what conditions. I'll need to see if they have that detail. Maybe it was at a level that would destroy even non-electronic stuff - that has other implications?

Yep, pretty much. You can look at a typical vacuum tube (OK, you'll probably need to do google images unless you are a ham or an audio buff), and it's just some metal in a sealed glass tube. There's some actual physical distance between the metal parts, easily seen with the naked eye. It takes on the order of hundreds of volts to get it to conduct, and most tubes require a heater (that little red glow-y thing) to even get it to do that.

In comparison, the separation in semiconductor layers is measured in nano-meters (or some other very tiny scale), and they start conducting around 0.7V. Yes, a very big difference.

I'd guess a radio tube is about as impervious to EMP as the coins in your change jar.

-ERD50

 

[samclem]

OK,
Here is an idea, Global Hawk, or one of the other drones. They can be programmed to take off and land anywhere without human guidance. Put the message inside, write on the outside 'look here' and send it on it's way, might even put Please return.

I don't think the Global Hawk drones will work.
1) They have INS, but it updates using GPS to find their way. I'm not sure it could autonomously find an airfield across the country without GPS or a way to be steered from the ground.
2) Unless things have changed, they don't land autonomously, they need to be piloted by a guy at a ground station within line-of-sight of the runway. (at least the NASA one, according to this site).